Diane Kirkle: Mysteries of E Publishing Explained 8/5/04

Mary Rosenblum

Hello all!

Welcome to our Professional Connection live interview.

Tonight we'll be chatting with Diane Kirkle

Diane Kirkle is the 1992 President of the Nebraska Writers Guild, a member of EPIC (electronically published internet connection), Romance Writers of America, Published Authors Network (RWA), Western Writers of America, Awards Chair of Wyoming Writers, Inc., and Fiction Writers of the Heartland.

With over ten published novels, Diane Kirkle, writing as Diana Kirk, was awarded the 2000 EPPIE for Best Thriller Novel (A Caduceus is for Killing), presented at the EPIC yearly conference. Murder in Musicland was a finalist in the EPPIE Best Mystery Novel category. Her Egyptian time travel, Song of Isis, has earned numerous awards, most recently being voted the Best Time Travel novel from Affaire de Coeur magazine.

Writing as Diana Hart, Unfriendly Persuasion was nominated by her publisher at the International Frankfurt Awards for Best Fiction, presented in Germany. She was also a featured author in Writer's Digest Publishing Success Magazine.

Her novels are available in paper, electronic, and audio formats and her articles have appeared in national as well as regional publications. She taught mystery writing for Painted Rock Writers, Colony, KOD chapter Coffin College, and Word Museum. Currently, Kirkle lives in a lush valley below Wyoming's Carter Mountain Range and divides her time between teaching the prestigious Long Ridge Writers Group Breaking into Print Course, editing for her publisher, Hard Shell Word Factory and writing.

Welcome, Diane!

We're so glad to have you!

Diane Kirkle

Thanks Mary. I'm glad to be here.

Mary Rosenblum

I know I'm very curious about the world of electronic publishing! Can you tell us a bit about your view of this universe?

Diane Kirkle

I'm here to answer any questions you might have about Epublishing. This is an evolving medium and it has only just begun in the realm of the publishing industry.

It took radio 38 years, TV 13 years, Cable TV 10 years to reach the mark of 50 million American users

and only five years for the Internet to become a viable commercial enterprise. So the future is limitless.

I'm happy to have begun on the ground floor as one of the first royalty paying authors electronically published in 1996.

Mary Rosenblum

That is impressive!

roe

WOW!! where do you find the time, and welcome.

bud

Hi Diane, how do you find time to write?

Mary Rosenblum

Good question!

Diane Kirkle

Well, between my duties for Long Ridge teaching and editing for my publisher Hard Shell Word Factory, I'm not writing as much as I'd like.

Diane Kirkle

But I do manage to squeeze in time and I've found that the busier you are the more productive you are.

Mary Rosenblum

Yeah, I know that one. Sleep is nice once in awhile, too, though. :-)

hedwig

What is a typical day like for you Diana?

Diane Kirkle

Wow, I don't think I have a typical day because I do different things on different days. On Friday, I get my Long Ridge lessons and work on them and then the rest of the week

I spend between editing assignments for Hard Shell and writing my own stuff, answering email, promotion and gazing at the mountains.

Mary Rosenblum

Gazing at the mountains...I'll have to try that one of these days, LOL!

sailor

How do you decide which genre to write next? Is one your favorite?

Diane Kirkle

That is a tough one because I have committed the cardinal sin I writer isn't supposed to do and that is write in many different genres. I have about seven different genre

projects going on right now and I'm leaning toward the one that calls to me the most. I have a couple of books almost finished so I'll be concentrating on those while

doing research for the others.

Mary Rosenblum

You know, I don't know where that 'cardinal sin' myth came from. I don't know many writers who don't write in at least two or three genres. Checks are nice!

Diane Kirkle

Yes, they are. And I like so many different types of genres that they all are equally satisfying.

Mary Rosenblum

Same here.

hedwig

With a toe (or foot, or leg!) in so many areas of the writing and publishing business, what advice would you give writers who are just starting their careers?

Diane Kirkle

It really helps to know the different genres when it comes to editing.

Hedwig: Good question. I think it is important to write what calls to you in an artistic way.

Know your market. Read in whatever genre you have decided to write in so that you know what is selling and what isn't.

coway

Good. Now I don't feel so bad, as I just sent in an action/thriller, but have done SF and true articles. Why did you call it a cardinal sin to write in many genres?

Diane Kirkle

Coway: I said that more as a joke, but the reality behind that statement is that by writing in different genres, your readers do not know what to expect from you with each book.

So, it is difficult to build a readership base who will follow you to the ends of the earth as long as you are writing what they want to read.

I've written gory medical thrillers, haunting time travel tales to ancient Egypt and horror stories that are gritty and children’s books.

twhorn

Writing in different genres, would you recommend different pen names for each?(like Evan Hunter does with Ed McBain)

Diane Kirkle

Good question. I probably should do that. But I'm leaning against using a pseudonym. I think having multiple names is even more confusing

to readers. But since I have two pseudonyms and have built a reputation and fan base, I hesitate to write in my own name.

Mary Rosenblum

I have to say, Diane, that having two names, I agree with you. My various readers are quite willing to understand that I write differently in different genres.

Mary Rosenblum

And it DOES make it hard for crossover readers.

Diane Kirkle

Yes, there's a story behind why I took a pseudonym. Would you like to hear it?

Mary Rosenblum

Of course! :-)

Diane Kirkle

When I wrote A Caduceus is for Killing I was an instructor for a Catholic midwestern university and I was worried that upon reading this gruesome novel, I'd be fired. So I took a pseudonym Diana Kirk.

But everyone at Creighton University read the book and no one said a thing and I was able to continue working there, writing books until I retired last year.

It's funny how we make things harder for ourselves. :-)

Mary Rosenblum

Well, a paycheck is a good reason to consider a pseudonym. But that's sort of how I ended up with two names.

And yep...does make it harder.

tkat_2

Always keep the readers guessing. That is good regarding the different genres.

Mary Rosenblum

What do you think about that, Diane? Is it?

Diane Kirkle

Yes, but it can work against you.

If someone likes my Egyptian time travel and then they buy my medical thriller or horror novel, they might be angry that I didn't give them what they expected.

On the other hand, I have to be true to myself and write what I feel passionate about.

sailor

Even with a pen name, the author's real name is usually on the copyright page. Guess most people don't look at that.

Diane Kirkle

Sailor: You're right. I always do, but then I'm a writer and I think most writers want to know who the copyright is in. It's amazing that my publisher has copyrighted my books in my pseudonym and real name. So it just depends.

rupbert

How complicated is it to be e-published?

Diane Kirkle

Rupert: How do you mean complicated? If you mean is it just like being published in paper, then I'd say not too complicated. Epublishing is treated just like traditional publishing.

My books are submitted to the publisher, who has a reader do an initial read. They will then recommend rejection or a complete read.

Then if the book is accepted, a contract is offered and upon signing the contract, the editing process takes over. By electronic publishing I am talking about a full royalty

publisher and not a vanity or self publisher.

The editing process is such that the author works with the editor and corrections are made on the manuscript and transferred via email attachments. Once the book is edited and

formatted, it goes into the publishing que and a cover is created and promotion begins.

bravo6

As far as e-publishing goes, how do you know if you have a good e-publisher and not E-Publish-Fly-By-Night? Do agents know these things, or do you need a specific e-Agent for E-Publishing?

Diane Kirkle

Bravo6: This is where the homework factor comes in... no matter where you are submitting you need to make sure that the publisher you choose is not a fly-by night.

Look for publishers who offer royalty contracts only...if they charge you anything for publishing your work, then they are a subsidy publisher and these are frowned upon by booksellers and other authors.

Also, many reputable publishers post their contracts on their websites. These are easily understood and if there's anything that causes concern or they don't have a contract posted, ask to see it.

Established royalty paying publishers who are successful will have been around since 1995, so look for those. But it is more difficult to break into those.

I'd like to suggest a book for those of you who are serious about Epublishing. Electronic Publishing: The Definitive Guide by Karen S. Wiesner

ISBN 0-7599-3762-1 This gives in depth information about all the publishers (reputable) on the net.

twhorn

Is there a web site that list recommendations or comments for publishers?

Diane Kirkle

There is and it is called Predators and Editors (I don't have the URL for it, but you can google it) and it lists publishers and any warnings out there.

Mary Rosenblum

Aha..I do, Diane.

Hang on:

Diane Kirkle

It is put out by the Science fiction Writers and it is very comprehensive.

Mary Rosenblum

Predators and Editors

Diane Kirkle

Yes, :-)

Mary Rosenblum

www.sfwa.org has a Writers Beware section, too.

molly

Hi Diane, It’s great to have you here. I’m a bit curious about copyrights in Epublishing, how does that work?

Diane Kirkle

Hi Molly. Well, what you are selling (rights wise) are only the electronic rights and most probably the paper print rights. All other rights (unless listed in the contract)

are retained by the author. I'll give you an example. I sold my electronic and paper rights for Bad Medicine to Hard Shell Word Factory, but I then sold the large print rights to an English Press.

I also sold my audio rights on Caduceus is for Killing to Fiction Works and the audio rights for Murder In Musicland to Books in Motion and it is available as a tape set there.

So there are many rights involved and this is why an author doesn't want to sign them all away unknowingly, because each set of rights can mean income for the author.

sailor

Do e-pub contracts address foreign sites, movie rights, and others just like print contracts?

Diane Kirkle

Sailor: Yes. I can only speak for Hard Shell, but they only ask for electronic foreign rights and you can decline the print rights and just retain the electronic rights. All other rights belong to the author.

Mary Rosenblum

And they're probably negotiable.

Just because a publisher ASKS for all rights, doesn't mean you should say YES!

Diane Kirkle

Yes, that's one great thing about Epublishing. EVERYTHING is negotiable.

bud

I'm new to E publishing...are the stories made into book form or just published on a web site?

Mary Rosenblum

Yes, I think we need a bit of definition here!

Diane Kirkle

Bud: Some are, some aren't. Electronic publishers are varied in how they sell the product. Some sell CDs, some disks, some downloads only in various formats and some are sold in both electronic via websites and bookstores

and some are sold in print form via traditional bookstores and great sites like Amazon.com/ BN.com etc. It depends upon the type of electronic device the reader plans to use.

You can read novels from the computer, or from one of many different hand held devices or purchase the paper copy of the electronic method isn't your cup of tea.

Mary Rosenblum

I want a hand held I can take into the bathtub, lol.

Diane Kirkle

Hey, I've done it with my Rocket Ebook. Just put it in a baggie and it's safe.

Sadly the Rocket is no more. But you can still find some on ebay.

Mary Rosenblum

Might be better than a soggy paperback!

ashoak

Is electronic publishing the same as publishing on demand?

Diane Kirkle

Ashoak. No. Publishing on demand refers to the paper product that can be produced from the electronic form of the book.

Publishing On Demand is a copyrighted process whereby the digital book information is fed into a computerized printing machine and a book results in a very short time. These books are then bound by the machine and sold as paperbacks. Many electronic publishers offer this type of alternative along with electronic books...

Hard Shell Word Factory uses some POD and also short runs from traditional publishers.

ladybird39pm

After selling to an E publisher can you sell book rights of same book to a traditional publisher?

Diane Kirkle

You can, but unfortunately, many traditional publishers now want the electronic rights, so once you've sold those, the traditional publishers aren't interested unless your book becomes a huge hit

similar to Stephen King's venture Riding the Bullet. It was first produced on the web, sold thousands of dollars worth of downloads and then was put into print.

Mary Rosenblum

I'll throw my two cents in here...

Diane Kirkle

But of course that's Stephen King. :-)

Mary Rosenblum

My agent used to have no trouble hanging onto my Erights, but no longer.

And a friend of mine who insisted on keeping hers, saw the contract dropped. The publisher would NOT back down.  They want Erights

Diane Kirkle

Yes, they are seeing the light. And if you want to know more. Go to www.fictionwise.com and see the names of the authors who have electronic books from major New York publishers.

martyg

Are you saying to never self-publish?

Diane Kirkle

martyg: Don't be confused by self-published vs. subsidy publishing vs. royalty publishing. I'm saying no to subsidy publishing.

Self publishing is where the author assumes all the responsibility of the publisher, editor, marketer and promoter. The self published author finds their own printer, editor, and artist to design the cover, etc. The author has total control; total expense and total reap of any profits.

Some books do better being self published than royalty published like cookbooks, self help books, but usually not fiction.

Mary Rosenblum

Family memoirs and books intended for a narrow niche market are good self publish candidates, too.

Diane Kirkle

Yes, I agree.

Mary Rosenblum

Subsidy publishers pretend to be regular publishers but want YOU to PAY for publishing your book and then rarely promote it.

Diane Kirkle

Sometimes they don't even publish the book. Does anyone remember the Commonwealth fiasco?

Mary Rosenblum

Not that one, but lots of others!

Diane Kirkle

If a publisher isn't willing to invest in the success of your book, then you don't want that publisher.

catlady

Do you recommend Epublishing over traditional? In the process you described, what happens after the book hits production? Have you published traditionally and which makes more money, Epublishing or paper?

Mary Rosenblum

You have done both.

How do they compare?

Diane Kirkle

Catlady: I'm going to have to give you a mixed answer. Yes, I got what seemed to be more money up front, but the book was available for only a short time. Whereas, my best selling novel, Song of Isis, started out small, but has been on the shelves for six years and had consistently stayed on the publisher's best selling list since that time.

It's still for sale and still doing well. So overall it has surpassed what the print market offered. And I'm so spoiled by Epublishing. I have no mailing expense because queries and books are sent via email attachment

and I have access to my editors and publishers, and they respect my voice and don't try to mold me into their vision.

Mary Rosenblum

Okay this is a very real world question...for all of you out there who want professional fiction careers.

In the paper print world, the trend today is a very short shelf life, and out of print. I take it that is not true in Epublishing?

Diane Kirkle

As long as your editor/publisher is pleased with your book and sales, your book could remain for sale indefinitely. The contracts are self renewing with a 60 to 90 day opt out clause at the end of each contract period. So, it's a win win situation.

Write a book, do the proper marketing for your work, and get going on the next book. But there are some downsides and I should tell you those.

There are usually no advances, however, in the long term this is made up over the longevity of the book being for sale. In the New York print world, an advance is an advance on the royalties you expect to receive.

If the book doesn't earn out, no further monies will be received and you will probably not sell your next book to that publisher. In Epublishing, they usually will accept submissions from their authors no matter if submissions to outsiders are closed...

Epublishing is still small press and with small press, don't expect to make millions although some like science fiction and especially erotica authors are doing quite well.

Mary Rosenblum

That's always a good balance...long 'in print' time versus money up front and short 'in print' time...but of course, the pool of readers for Ebooks is smaller. It's growing, right? Do you know who reads Ebooks? Do you have a demographic breakdown?

Diane Kirkle

Yes, it is growing exponentially. I've got some figures for you.

More than 57 million books were sold on the internet in 1999 more than triple the number sold on-line in 1998. On-line book sales now account for between 5% and 10% of all US books...

purchased. In 2005, Ebooks will account for billion equivalent to 17.5% of publishing industry revenues.

Publishers Weekly said that two-third of the on-line book buyers polled know what an Ebook is and 32% of them said that they were likely to buy an Ebook in the next year with 11% saying they have already purchased one. 78% of those who tried the experience liked it...

Diane Kirkle

Worldwide internet population in 2002 was growing at the rate of 2 million new Internet users each month according to a study by the US government.

Mary Rosenblum

That's pushing 20% and pretty impressive growth. I find these numbers to be VERY significant and I don't think I’m going to shrug off Epublishers as 'fringe’ any more.

Diane Kirkle

There's more Sales at Fictionwise in 2002 are more than 10,000 Ebooks a month and Hard Shell Word Factory sells more than 1000 books a week. Not bad for small presses.

Mary Rosenblum

Not at ALL bad!

hedwig

What does "sold on the internet" mean exactly? Many people may buy books from Amazon.com or Barnes and Noble, but they are traditional paper books. Do they count these in the 57 million books sold statistic?

Diane Kirkle

Hedwig. Take a look at Amazon.com and BN. They sell Ebooks also. Fictionwise sells thousands of books from their website and they are one of the most successful ventures, selling books in the Palm Pilot format along with many other formats.

Of course these electronic publishers also sell paper copies, so I think the statistics include all sales regardless of the format.

bud

How do we find E-books on-line? Are they advertised somewhere?

Diane Kirkle

Actually, you can do a google search and many will pop up. Just type in electronic publisher or if you know the name of a publisher, type it in. You can also go to www.fictionwise.com and see books from all the different Epublslishers there.

Diane Kirkle

You can look on my website: www.eclectics.com/dianakirk  and there are several different electronic listings there. I also give away free mystery writing lessons, so be sure and visit.

You can also search Amazon.com for electronic books.

Mary Rosenblum

Diane Kirkle's Website

patchworkcat

Publishing any original material on the Internet counts as first rights, does it not?

Diane Kirkle

patchworkcat: I'm not sure I understand your meaning. If you mean publishing it yourself, not necessarily. If you are publishing it on the web at your own site and someone wants to purchase it, I'm not sure if that means first or second rights. And since I'm not an attorney, I hesitate to answer. But check out Kirsch's publishing law (available at amazon.com) they'll give you all the legal information.

Mary Rosenblum

I can answer that one, Diane.

Diane Kirkle

Great!

Mary Rosenblum

If you publish anything on the internet, you cannot sell First Rights...but if you publish on an obscure website

the publisher might buy second rights from you. It means less money though.

But these are short fiction rights, NOT book rights!

Or short nonfiction rights! :-)

Diane Kirkle

Hmmm. Very interesting. Actually, I've had books published by one publisher and when my contract was up or there was a breach, I moved it to another publisher with no loss of revenue.

Mary Rosenblum

Yes, book rights are for an agreed upon length of time, or books in print, or some other limiting factor

and then you can resell them. I own all the rights to all my out of print books and I can re sell them.

Diane Kirkle

And that's the wonderful thing about owning and controlling your own rights.

Mary Rosenblum

No kidding! That's why one READS contracts!

molly

Does that mean that if I have a web site of my own and put a story of mine on it, that I cant sell it for first rights?

Mary Rosenblum

I can answer this one, Diane.

You would have to tell the editor that it was there and the editor would decide how or if they would purchase it.

It IS published.

But again, this is short fiction rights not book rights.

Diane Kirkle

Yes, even if it is self published. Published is published.

coway

Is it easier for a new writer to e-publish as opposed to book publishing through traditional publisher? And would on sacrifice amount of money paid through e-publishing?

Diane Kirkle

coway: It is getting harder to break into Epublishing as it was five years ago. Many traditionally published authors who have been released by the demise of the dreaded midlist are flocking to Epublishers and this allows them to be quite discerning....

Many of these authors bring their own previously published books (when they have recovered their rights) and these are already edited books, so it becomes easy for the electronic publisher to get them online.

Some publishers like Hard Shell Word Factory have so many submissions, that the slush list is quite long.

Mary Rosenblum

Laughing...NO one is immune from the slush pile!

Diane Kirkle

Oh, boy. I get assigned reading from the slush pile and at this time I have four books to read and four to edit (this week alone) and I'm only working part time.

I'm given fifteen minutes reading time pay to determine whether a book is to be a full read or not. So think about that when you are beginning a novel.

You have to grab them in the beginning and not let go.

Mary Rosenblum

Yep...one paragraph for a short story, a few pages for novel..WORK on those openings!

bravo6

15 Minutes? When can I get my book in your hand for 15 minutes???? ;-)

Mary Rosenblum

I think you’re being solicited...

Diane Kirkle

Bravo6: Well, I don't take any direct solicitations. However, I can ask the senior editor if I could do a slush read or two. I can't guarantee her answer, but it's worth a try. I can tell her it's from this chat.

arfelin

Would a novice understand an Epublisher's book contract or should he/she get an agent?

Diane Kirkle

arfelin: I don't think an agent is necessary

and I'll tell you why.

Since the contracts are fairly standard with nothing too complicated to be negotiated, I think Epublishing is one of the last bastions where an agent isn't needed.

Why pay an agent to sell something that your writing will sell?

The purpose for having an agent is to break down the blockades placed by many of the paper publishers.

At this time, this hasn't happened in Epublishing yet. But I see it coming down the pike as this medium grows and flourishes.

Mary Rosenblum

Most agents won't handle Ebooks or small press contracts unless you do traditional publishing with them.

There isn't enough money in it for them.

Diane Kirkle

True.

deb1234

How do you get paid royalties for electronic publishing?

Diane Kirkle

I earn anywhere from 30 to 50% from each sale paid on a quarterly basis. This means that you can expect a royalty payment within three months of having a book published. New York publishers traditionally pay the first royalty payment 18 months after first publication. That's why an advance is given.

So the author can buy bread and water until the royalty payment is due.

Mary Rosenblum

Wow, that's a good royalty, Diane. Let me compare for our audience.

The average paperback earns 6 - 8% of the cover price per book.

The average hard cover earns 10 - 12 % of the cover price per sale.

So the larger advance makes up for smaller distribution to some extent.

Diane Kirkle

Well, you must remember. No advance and a smaller population of readers. But the balance comes in through the longevity of the book being available for sale.

Mary Rosenblum

Exactly...so there is some give and take here.

But that's still high, compared to paper small press.

Diane Kirkle

Still, if you have a New York print run of 30000 to 50000 and your sell through is good, you can make a considerable amount of money going the New York route.

However, it depends on how many you sell within a small amount of time, which can be months or sometimes even only one month.

Mary Rosenblum

I do want to say that I'm getting a LOT of questions about rights, and I will do our Friday Forum on the topic. If you want to know what you own and what you don't, come to the Friday Forum and we'll spend the whole time on it!

Yes, Diane, and the bookstores don't keep

those books on the shelf very long. They strip 'em and send 'em back.

janp

You have been a part of Epublishing since day one and watched it grow. What do you see in its future?

Diane Kirkle

Janp: I don't think Epublishing will ever replace the paper book and that's great. But, if, and this is a big if, and when an inexpensive

hand-held reader is made available, it will go through the roof. What do I mean by inexpensive hand-held? Fifty dollars or under. That will be the determining factor in the success of electronic publishing.

Mary Rosenblum

There is another thing that us SF folk are very aware of here.

We are into generations who grew up from infancy with computers as everyday tools

and who are a lot less uncomfortable reading on a screen. That is, I think, a big factor for the future.

Diane Kirkle

Yes, and they are more apt to do everything via computer. Read, play games, etc.

My grandson uses Instant Mail like we use the telephone.

Mary Rosenblum

Exactly.

hedwig

Do all genres do well on e-publishing, or do readers seem to lean toward a specific genre on e-publishing more so than in the "paper" market?

Diane Kirkle

Hedwig: I think science fiction authors have found a real niche in electronic publishing and of course erotica is selling like hotcakes. I sometimes wish I could write it. But sadly I can't. I've know of authors making four figures a month with erotica.

Romance is also doing quite well. Horror is pretty popular, but of course that it such a niche market. The horror that I've seen is doing quite well.

ladybird39pm

Should I give away an e children's story for publicity?

Diane Kirkle

ladybird39pm: I always hate to give anything away. But if you have other things you want to sell and by giving this story away, you can lead readers to your paying stories, then it might just work.

I give away mystery writing lessons, because I don't teach that anymore and didn't want to waste the information I'd been teaching for quite a few years. So, this has given me quite a good fan base of email addresses to use for promotion.

deb1234

Speaking as a reader, how does one find the sites to be able to read the works of an author?

Diane Kirkle

Use google and type in the names of an author or simply type in electronic publishers.

Then visit those sites and you should be able to read the blurbs and excerpts to see if there's anything you like. If you type in Diana Kirk, you'll be amazed at what comes up.

Mary Rosenblum

Diane we have run you ragged and there are LOTS more questions to ask, so I will ask you back, later on! For sure. (If you'll come).

Diane Kirkle

Of course I'd love to come back.

Mary Rosenblum

But now I'd like to give you the chance to tell us what you have coming up and where to find it

and then we have our very first Prize Drawing!

Diane Kirkle

Well, I have Sex, Lies and Rodeo Games, which will be coming out in November from Hard Shell Word Factory www.hardshell.com  

It's a contemporary western romance set in Cody, Wyoming (where I live).

Mary Rosenblum

Hardshell.com website

Diane Kirkle

And then my Diana Hart Bad Medicine/Unfriendly Persuasion duo will be coming out in paperback sometime very soon.

Like within the next month.

Mary Rosenblum

Is that from Hardshell, too?

Diane Kirkle

Yes. And I'm working on a YA series called Camp Yellowstone mysteries.

Mary Rosenblum

Great!

Diane Kirkle

Thanks.

Mary Rosenblum

Okay, I want you to pick a number between 1 and 35

and that will tell me who our winner is.

Diane donated a prize...a very nice tote bag with one of her books...for the lucky winner.

Diane Kirkle

Yes. Since my wedding anniversary is on December 21, I'm going to go with 21.

Mary Rosenblum

That is Molly, on my computer screen...

Counting from top to bottom. Congratulations, Molly!

Diane Kirkle

Wow, great. Congrats Molly.

Mary Rosenblum

If you'll send me your mailing address as a question so it stays private...

I'll give it to Diane!

Way to go!

Diane Kirkle

Super. I know you'll love the tote bag and the gift is my best seller , Song of Isis.

catydorr

Diana thank you for this tonight-this has been very helpful--it is all such a new and prospering venue if nothing written in stone-I have found this to be very informative--thank you--i write mysteries so I will be checking out your mystery class.

Diane Kirkle

Thanks catydorr. I'm glad you enjoyed the talk.

catlady

Thank you for an informative chat!

Diane Kirkle

You're so welcome catlady.

Mary Rosenblum

Thank you all for coming!

Good night, Diane!

Go rest your fingers!

And thank you all for coming tonight!

Good nite!