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Mary Rosenblum
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Hello all!
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Welcome to our Professional
Connection Live Interview.
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Tonight, I'm very pleased to
depart a bit from our usual guests who mostly write for adults
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and present Nancy Raines Day,
who writes illustrated children's books. I don't know a lot...
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about this area of publishing,
so I'm going to learn a lot, too!
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Nancy Raines Day is the author
of Flamingo's First Christmas (new from Abrams), Double Those
Wheels (Dutton), A Kitten's Year (HarperCollins), Piecing
Earth and Sky Together (Shen's), and The Lion's Whiskers (Scholastic),
a New York Times notable book. Her sixth picture book will be A Fairy
Child's Busy Week (HarperCollins).
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Double Those Wheels is a rhyming math concept book about a monkey who jumps
from vehicle to vehicle, doubling his wheels each time, delivering a hot
pizza to a birthday party. A Kitten's Year, which teaches the months
of the year--and active verbs--through the antics of a growing kitten,
appeals to cat lovers of all ages.
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The Lion's Whiskers is an Ethiopian folktale about a good stepmother(!) who
wins her reluctant stepson's love through courage and patience. Piecing
Earth and Sky Together is a creation story from Laos about how a
brother and sister learn to cooperate to weave and sew the heavens and
earth.
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A Fairy Child's Busy Week is in verse.
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Nancy, Welcome!
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How did you find your way into children’s
writing, Nancy?
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Nancy Raines Day
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When I was growing up, a
wonderful children's author and poet lived down the street. As I saw her
books get
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better and better, I was
inspired. My mom read to us every night, WITH EXPRESSION
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and my dad started
"original stories" every Saturday morning. Each of us 4 kids had
to make up a story on the spot
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putting in elements the other
kids asked for. Not easy to come up with a story about an elf, a
toothbrush, and a swimming pool on
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the spot. I always thought up
my best ideas long after story time was over. Writing them down is better,
you can take all the time you need.
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writeaway
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What great training for a future
writer.
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Mary Rosenblum
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I agree!
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Nancy Raines Day
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These are all good ideas for
you parents with young kids out there. Mine are grown now, but they are
great readers and writers!
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Mary Rosenblum
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Did that childhood experience
and reading to your own kids send you directly to children's literature? Or
do you write for adults, too?
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Nancy Raines Day
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For years, I wrote articles
for adult magazines, mostly historical and medical subjects. So all my
nonfiction writing was for
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adults, but since I switched
to fiction books, they have all been for children.
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cherley
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Do you both write and
illustrate?
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Nancy Raines Day
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No, only write. I have a good
visual sense, which suits me for picture books, but not the ability to
translate that onto a page.
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So far, I've been very
fortunate in being paired with the right artist for each of my picture
books.
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tory
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Do you have any input into
illustrations, or is it all up to someone else?
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Nancy Raines Day
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That's the editor's call. He
or she is the middleman, and communicates with both the writer and
illustrator. I usually don't get to meet the
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illustrator until the book is
out. Now that I have done several picture books, one of my editors asks me
for illustrator suggestions
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but hasn't yet gone with my
suggestions. Even when I wasn't happy with their picks in the beginning, I
could see why at the end.
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The art always comes out
different than I visualized it, but often, it's better.
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writeaway
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Does the artist try to translate
what you envision or does she read the story and draw on it for
inspiration?
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Nancy Raines Day
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It is meant to be a real
partnership. In the end, it's as much the artist's book as mine. The story
I write inspires them to take it in their own creative direction.
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Mary Rosenblum
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That's very interesting, Nancy. So really, you
are creating only half the book and the artist creates the other half,
right?
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Nancy Raines Day
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Yes, I try to make the text
evocative and leave room for the artist to add to it.
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In Flamingo's First Christmas,
I never would have thought of some of the witty touches Fiona Robinson put
in.
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I did get to meet her first,
and she did love my story first, though.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Have you ever had an
illustrator whose work didn't seem to reflect the story YOU wanted to tell?
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Nancy Raines Day
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Not yet, though I was afraid
of that a few times along the way!
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cosmos
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That's a nice way of looking at
the process of publishing a book. It's like a symphony with many
individuals needed to take the book to final form--editor, writer,
illustrator, etc.
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Mary Rosenblum
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I hadn't thought of a symphony,
cosmos! Nice imagery.
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Nancy Raines Day
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Yes, that's lovely. And true.
I used to play in the symphony, and I never thought of it that way.
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writeaway
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It really says something for
your writing that it sparks such imagination in the artist.
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Nancy Raines Day
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That's what a picture book
manuscript should do. It needs to be a visual subject to start with.
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jackbooth
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What was your first step after
your idea became a story?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Good question, jack! How do you
get started, Nancy?
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Nancy Raines Day
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How do you jump from idea to
story? I have a lot of projects that percolate in my head, sometimes for
years
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before I get much down on
paper. With Flamingo's First Christmas, I knew I wanted to write about an
urban nativity play
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with live animals. But many Christmases
went by before I figured out what the story would be about (and who). One
Christmas, I
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felt that a large, pink
flamingo hopped on my shoulder and said "I want in to this
story." Then I just had to figure out how to get him there!
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Luckily, he kept pestering me
until I figured out a way and got it down on paper. Many revisions later, I
sold it.
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paulplqn
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How long from idea to published
for the Flamingo?
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Nancy Raines Day
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I hate to say this, but I
first had the idea 15 years ago--a very long gestation! Most have not taken
that long.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Nancy, I have a ton of questions here about the process of
writing/submitting a picture book. And I know one ting has always puzzled
me...these books are so brief...what is it that makes a publisher choose
THIS story over that?
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Especially since it comes
without illustrations?
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Nancy Raines Day
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Editors are very good at
visualizing, too. My first manuscript to make it out of the slush pile was
an Ethiopian folktale about a
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GOOD stepmother. This was the
early 90s when folktales were big, many beautiful books were being published
on African-American subjects
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and more and more families
were dealing with "steps". Plus it was a wonderful story I found.
The young editor who bought it said
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no one even argued about it at
the acquisition meeting, they all just said yes. So, it needs to have value
and connect on several levels.
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cosmos
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Do I understand correctly that a
picture book is 32 pages with story and illustrations and that there needs
to be rapid change of scenes so there is lots of material for
illustrations?
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Mary Rosenblum
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What IS the definition of
'illustrated children's book'? In general?
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Nancy Raines Day
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Yes. I try to write my
manuscripts in 14-15 2-page spreads. I actually do an extra line space
between sections so I can get an idea of the pacing.
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Then I take them out before I
send it. And, yes, there needs to be a lot of visual variety.
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serendipity
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How long is the average
children's book per age range?
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Nancy Raines Day
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The absolute max these days
for a picture book for 5- 8-year-olds is 1000 words. But the shorter the
better. And, of course,
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much shorter for younger kids.
A Kitten's Year was only 40 words. Look at it this way, if it's short you
get paid much more per word!
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But seriously, you can usually
cut a lot from your draft that can be shown in the pictures (what characters
and setting look like, even some actions).
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Mary Rosenblum
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So when you get to these very
young age groups, you are almost writing poetry, in a sense? Making very
few words do a lot?
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Nancy Raines Day
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Exactly. I think of it as
poetry. When you have so few words, each word has to be chosen carefully
and pull its weight. That means a lot of
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drafts. Like Mark Twain said,
"If I had more time, I would have written a shorter letter."
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Mary Rosenblum
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Ah yes...stories DO shrink in
revision don't they?
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cherley
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How many words per published
page?
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Mary Rosenblum
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That must vary by age, right?
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Nancy Raines Day
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If you look at picture books
out today, you'll see tremendous variety in that.
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Yes, it does correlate with
age.
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tory
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What is the target age for A
Kitten's Year?
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Nancy Raines Day
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I'd say 3-7, but I've been
amazed how many adults have bought it for themselves or other adults! And
older kids who love cats have liked it, too.
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info
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Do you ever get inspiration from
real life for your book? I use to have a cat that still gives me inspiration
for short stories.
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Nancy Raines Day
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Of course, my personal
experience from all parts of my life goes into my books. I've had 4 cats
for more than 20 years. And I've spent
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many hours watching flamingos
in Florida.
What I love I want to share with young readers.
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babbles
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I have trouble choosing exactly
what age group my stories are geared for, was this ever a concern for you?
Or do you decide while writing what age it's for?
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Nancy Raines Day
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I think about kids I know or
have known at different ages, and what they would enjoy and understand. Of
course, sometimes the story dictates what age the audience should be.
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cherley
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I wrote a young child's book but
I won't get the time to illustrate it. Maybe I should just submit it
somewhere.
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Nancy Raines Day
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If you don't feel you are the
absolute best person to illustrate it, go with the text. But do spend the
time to get the words in the best shape possible before you submit it.
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tory
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So when you type a manuscript,
it is straight typing as an adult ms? The editor decides which chunk of
prose goes on each page?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Good question...what IS the
format for a manuscript?
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Nancy Raines Day
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Yes, it's pretty much like an
adult ms. I put my name and contact info in the top left corner, the word
count in the right, 1" margins, page numbers.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Double spaced? And the editor
breaks up the scenes to match illustrations? Or do you do that?
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Nancy Raines Day
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Yes, forgot to say double
spaced. Very important for editors' eyes. And I don't put in page breaks,
though I do think them through. Those page turns are part of the picture
book art form.
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cosmos
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Do you create a dummy and submit
it with your manuscript?
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Nancy Raines Day
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I've never submitted a dummy,
though I used to make them for myself (with stick figures) when I first
started. After doing a few, now
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I can visualize what images
might go on each spread. But the editor doesn't want to see a dummy unless
you're illustrating.
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cherley
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So if a person is an artist they
could illustrate their own books?
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Nancy Raines Day
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If you are an artist who also
has the writing talent, sure. If you can do both, you don't have to split
royalties and have more control.
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If you're not completely
confident about your art, I'd wait till you sold a few picture book texts.
Cynthia Rylant tried illustrating late in the game!
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Mary Rosenblum
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Ah yes, money. Let's talk about
that for a bit here.
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info
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Since half the book appears to
be the illustrator's what kind of percentage do they get of the books you
write?
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Nancy Raines Day
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For all children's books
(including novels for older kids), 10% of retail is the going royalty for
trade publishers. For picture books, that's
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split between the author and
the illustrator, 5% for each (though the more famous of the pair might get
a bigger advance up front).
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Mary Rosenblum
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So most publishers do offer an
advance against royalties? What is the range there? Generally?
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Nancy Raines Day
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For a first book, the advance
might be $3,000-$5,000.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Not bad if you figure the price
per word! LOL
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Nancy Raines Day
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That's the way to look at it!
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cosmos
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$3,000 to $5,000.........is this
with a major book publisher?
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Mary Rosenblum
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That must be, right, Nancy?
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Nancy Raines Day
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Yes, for a first picture book
where you are just the author. I've gotten more each time. You have to work
your way up. And, again, it's
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an advance against royalties.
After sales pay back the advance, you get the royalty checks every 6 months
and hopefully make much more.
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Mary Rosenblum
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I would think that picture
books tend to remain in print? Is that the case? That means, folks, that
you will continue to get those royalty checks.
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Nancy Raines Day
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Children's books do stay in
print, on the average, much longer than adult titles. The Lion's Whiskers,
my first book, just went out of print
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after 9 years. But the picture
book market is not strong right now, since the population bump favors the
YA bunch, and some may only get
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a two year run. Still, I think
the average adult title only has about 6 months to reach its market or not.
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cosmos
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Is picture book writing where
the real money is for children's writers?
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Are advances the same for
juvenile novels?
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Nancy Raines Day
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There is no real money for
children's writers, unless you're J.K. Rowling or Lemony Snickett. I think
novel advances are a bit higher, though not as much
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as you might think considering
how much longer they are! The publishing company tries to offer an advance
equal to the amount
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they think the author will
make in royalties in the first year.
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babbles
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Do you have an agent or did you
sell stories all on your own?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Are the major publishers open
to unagented submissions?
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Nancy Raines Day
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I sold the first picture book
on my own. With that in hand, I re-contacted an agent who had turned me
down 7 years earlier. She loved the book
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and the projects I was working
on, and took me on right away. It's much easier to get a more senior editor
to read your manuscript quicker with an agent.
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Without one, I'd recommend
joining the Society of Children’s Writers and Illustrators. Great group
that keeps tabs on who is accepting what kinds of manuscripts
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and some editors will take
unsolicited manuscripts only from SCBWI members or writers they've talked
to at SCBWI conferences.
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jimc
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What is expected of you after
the book is published?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Are you expected to market your
book? Or does the publisher take care of that?
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Nancy Raines Day
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Publishers like to know that
authors will promote the book on their own, whether through school visits,
bookstore or library readings
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cosmos
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So what is the formula for a $100,000
picture book idea that will excite the imagination of kids?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Ah yes...the big question. What
DO editors want?
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Nancy Raines Day
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No formula. Just something of
value to kids, parents, and hopefully libraries and teachers.
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They can sell something with
an enduring, universal theme, but done with a new angle.
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Also, I think editors are
looking for books they would have loved as children. So it's good to hear
editors speak, and find out what they love--or lack.
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A Kitten's Year started with a
conversation with my editor about this wonderful British woman that does
only cat art. Who knew the world needed another cat book?
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tory
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I've heard the children's
picture book market is VERY hard to break into. Is that your experience? And
how long have you been writing for children?
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Nancy Raines Day
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It is very hard. It took me 10
years of sending manuscripts to publishers before my first acceptance. At
least the rejection letters kept getting nicer. And now I'm glad I kept
going, because I get to do something I love.
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sallyk
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What keeps you going in this
genre?
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Nancy Raines Day
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I love connecting with kids. I
work with editors I've gotten to know and respect. I am starting on a
middle grade novel, though. It's good to stretch yourself out of your
comfort zone.
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janecj333
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Nancy, if you could have known the one most important thing
before ever submitting a picturebook manuscript, what would it be?
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Nancy Raines Day
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Make sure it's as good as you
can get it. The most invaluable feedback to me has been from my children's
writers groups. They help me decide when it's ready to send off into the
world.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Thank you so much, Nancy. I know a lot of
people were very interested in this topic, and we all appreciate
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the information you shared with
us!
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cosmos
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Thanks so much for coming to the
forum!
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In what part of Florida do you live? Do
you make school visits?
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Mary Rosenblum
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You have a fan, Nancy!
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Nancy Raines Day
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I live in Georgia, but Florida's not far
away. And I do make school visits.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Nancy, thank you so much for sharing with us tonight! And
putting up with the cyber gremlins!
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At least we go the software to
work finally.
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Nancy Raines Day
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You're very welcome. It's been
a good learning experience for me!
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Mary Rosenblum
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I hope you'll join us again
sometime...now that we figured out the tech!
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writeaway
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Thank you Nancy and Mary. You
gave us great insight into of what it takes to be a children's story
writer.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Thank you all for coming!
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Good night!
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