Small Press Publishing: Is It Right For You? 10/19/06

Mary Rosenblum

Hello, all!

Welcome to our Professional Connection live interview.

I'm glad you all could make it, and I hope you're having a lovely fall.

(It's raining here, sigh)

Tony is Wolfmont Publishing, and he is also the editor of Crime and Suspense, an ezine devoted to short mystery stories. If you're enrolled in the Long Ridge Breaking into Print course, this is a potential market for any short mysteries you write.

Feel free to ask any questions you like! Click on your "Ask a Question" icon/button. (Or the "word bubble" icon, RIGHT NEXT TO THE RED QUESTION MARK.)

Tony, I'm delighted to visit with you tonight!

Welcome!

Tony Burton

Thanks so much for inviting me, Mary!

It's raining here, too, by the way --

both water and falling leaves.

Mary Rosenblum

Ah well, it's fall!

I think it's particularly cool that you're a graduated Long Ridge student. This makes it seem so...well...full circle!

Tony Burton

It's a great thing for me, too. I like the idea of coming back here, and being able to help in some way.

Speck has contributed to one of our anthologies, and that makes me proud, too.

Mary Rosenblum

And I particularly want to plug your Christmas anthology...the one where all proceeds go to Toys for Tots, right?

Tony Burton

Exactly! Speck has a story there, and there are 17 other stories, plus one really cool poem.

The authors have a variety of experience levels.

Some are award winners, some are multi-published and some are true newbies.

geezer

What is the deadline for the Christmas Anthology?

Tony Burton

Well, unfortunately, Geezer, the deadline for getting stories into the anthology has long passed.

It was Sept. 15, and we had an amazing number of submittals.

Mary Rosenblum

But you regularly post news of new anthologies and/or contests on your website, don't you?

http://www.wolfmont.com/

Tony Burton

Oh, yes, both on the Wolfmont Publishing website and on the Crime and Suspense website (if they relate to crime

mystery and suspense stories.)

The official release date for the anthology was Oct. 15,

and before that we had 150 pre-release orders.

Mary Rosenblum

Wow, that's a very nice pre-release number! Nice work, Tony!

charie'

What would be an average lead time for submitting a Halloween Story for next year? Or Christmas? How does it differ for bigger publishers?

Tony Burton

I'm pleased with it... but of course anyone who would like to order another copy should feel free! The profits do go to

Toys for Tots.

Well, Charie,  that's is assuming I have an anthology going for Halloween. Let's suppose I do.

If I have a Halloween anthology, I'll want to get it on sale at least a month before that time.

So, allowing for editing, selection and compiling

I'd probably want the stories sometime in the summer. Probably July.

sly

What is a normal pre-release order--or is there great variety?

Tony Burton

The pre-release orders on this book ran from a single to twenty copies. Most were small orders.

I always have my books available through Ingram and Baker & Taylor, too.

I didn't really address one part of the earlier question.

About how it differs from bigger publishers.

Large publishers are usually on a much longer timeline for publication than any small press...

They have a lot of stuff to go through. The book has to be sold not only to the acquisitions editor, but the acquisitions

editor has to turn around and convince the marketing department that it's a good risk.

Everybody is worried about the bottom line. Of course, so do I, but I only have to convince myself, and maybe my wife. J

Mary Rosenblum

My experience with big NY anthologies is the editor has to turn in the book one year before pub date, with all editing done, so generally, they open two years ahead of publication. And by the way, according to my

small press publisher friends, a pre release order of hundreds is very good numbers. J

Tony Burton

I felt good about it.

Mary Rosenblum

I hope so!

Tony Burton

And about timelines... LOL! Well, the authors who have written anthologies for me have expressed that I am a

Slave Driver. I'm not... well, not often.

But I do push to make deadlines.

Mary Rosenblum

Deadlines are very real, thank you!

Tony Burton

For example, the first anthology I published, Seven By Seven, was less than three months from conception to publication

and it's doing well, still.

Mary Rosenblum

So, before we leap into small press publishing, what it is, and why it's good for you, let's go back to the beginning for a minute

because I want to clear up one question that has been nagging me. What EVER possessed you

to start a publishing company AND a new ezine????

Glutton for punishment, eh?

Tony Burton

Ehhhhh... well, sometimes I ask myself the same question! I wrote a lot of things as I was growing up, but never published any of them.

Later, after stints in the Navy and as a teacher and professor, I wrote training manuals.

You can make very good money doing that, but the truth is it's BORING!

When I looked into getting some of my creative work published, I discovered

it was much harder than I thought it would be.

Of course, I was really ignorant of how to go about it.

So I thought

"Why not just become a publisher? Other people must have trouble getting published, too."

I wanted to get myself published, and to give others a boost as well.

Mary Rosenblum

You know, this is how just about all the major pro editors I know got started, and some of the publishing houses, too. Like Fairwood Press.

Tony Burton

Well, that's encouraging!

Mary Rosenblum

You're really doing a great job. How long have you been at this?

Tony Burton

Well, the ezine just passed its 13th month

and "officially" Wolfmont has been in existence since the first of the year. So, I'm really fast-tracking myself.

Mary Rosenblum

Boy, I AM impressed. For you to have that much in pre-sales after less than 12 months in business is much better than average.

Tony Burton

I can't take the credit. I had some great authors (Speck, take a bow!) and the cause is a great one. Who doesn't

want to help the Toys for Tots?

scaretactics

What is the difference between a small press and "big ones" and the benefits or draw backs of each?

Tony Burton

Wow... long and complex answer. Let's break it down a little.

First of all, the size. My company, which by the way actually has two imprints Wolfmont Publishing and Honey Locust Press,

has very limited resources. It has one true employee, me. And I have to foot the bill for all the commercial publishing

out of my pocket, praying that it pays off.

Second of all

I can be focused. For example, primarily Wolfmont has been involved with crime, suspense and mystery works.

There are large presses which focus on a genre (Tor, for example), but not as many.

Thirdly,

I don't need to justify my choice or LACK of choice of a manuscript to anyone but myself.

Fourthly, and this one may be seen as either a negative or a positive.

I primarily use POD printing technology. I say it that way because POD is a printing technology, not a way of publishing

and it gets muddled up sometimes.

Mary Rosenblum

I'm going to weigh in on this as someone who has spent her professional life publishing with the NY houses mostly, and know both sides of this issue.

The large publishers are VERY bound by the bottom line. Traditional publishing is VERY archaic and expensive

and they cannot afford to take risks on new authors with books that may not succeed

so they are very conservative about what they purchase. Not so the small press publishers I know

who can afford to take more risks and perhaps reap greater rewards.

Tony Burton

OK.. advantages and drawbacks: well, as Mary is mentioning, large publishing houses are big things, like ocean liners.

And like ocean liners, they have a lot of amenities, but they are hard to steer and turn around, compared to a small ship.

If I don’t' want the Lido deck and the pool, I may wish to simply get onto the small boat and cruise around instead.

Big publishers have VERY long wait times for publication... but then again they will publish many more titles than I will in a year.

speckledorf

The problem I've noticed with many small presses are they tend to take every manuscript submitted to them no matter the quality. How do we tell the difference between a small press that really is selective and one that isn't?

Tony Burton

Well, one way is to look at how many books they publish. I'm familiar with some of those you mention

and without getting into naming names, I'd like to advise you to Google something called "Travis Tea" when you get

out of this presentation tonight. You'll laugh, you'll cry... you may simply stand in awe!

But to continue...

If they are being truly selective and are a small press, they simply aren't going to print a huge number

of books in a year. I have turned down more than I have accepted, and that's the truth. Even in the subsidy side of the house.

And by the way, I'm not a strict "one size fits all" small press. I do both commercial and subsidy publishing

but I try very hard to filter out the less desirable books in both arenas.

Mary Rosenblum

I think you'd better explain 'subsidy publishing', Tony.

Tony Burton

OK. Subsidy publishing is sometimes called vanity publishing, but I differentiate...

Subsidy publishing is where you pay someone to publish your book... for instance AuthorHouse...

Vanity publishers are subsidy publishers who are not selective about what they publish. They will publish

almost ANYTHING as long as you hand over money.

There is a long-standing proverb

that money should always flow TO the author, not away. But in today's publishing market, that is not

always easy to achieve. And subsidy publishing does not carry as much of a stigma as it once did.

I agree, and I will say it here

or anywhere, that the majority of vanity published work on the market today should not have been published. That's because

the majority of it was published without any editorial guidance.

My opinion, for what it's worth.

Mary Rosenblum

I think the difficulty lies in publishers

who masquerade as 'commercial', when they actually are publishing work that the author paid to publish

and have no vested interest in editing or presenting quality work.

Tony Burton

I agree that this practice hurts legitimate small presses, subsidy publishers and self-publishers. It damages the

value, degrades it, when the guy down the street can get 1,000 copies of his "Restroom Wall Ditties" published by

forking over the money, and says he is a published author. I review books on my ezine, and have others who

review them, too. The books from some of the vanity presses are chock-full of misspellings, usage errors, formatting

glitches, and you name it. Someone should have taken responsibility for making sure that manuscript was ready for

publication, and no one really did.

Mary Rosenblum

You know, Tony, a new publishing phenomenon has arisen. These are the 'quantity publishers' who also publish nearly everybody, with very minimal editorial selection and stand to make money if they sell 3 copies of 90% of their inventory. They damage small press reputation more than vanity presses, in my opinion.

Tony Burton

Meaning the ones with sliding scales for the cost of their books?

Mary Rosenblum

I'm not sure about sliding scale

but they simply publish LOTS of books.

Tony Burton

Well, that's a bad thing, true! The poor sucker who gets pulled into a contract requiring that they give up their rights for

three years or seven years, and have to purchase 500 copies as part of the bargain --

it makes me sick. I see these "publishing houses" which charge huge amounts for printing the book

and the author gets a lot of copies, but they set in the garage and gather dust after he has exhausted

all his friends and relatives as customers.

Mary Rosenblum

So what you're really saying here, Tony, is that 'small press' covers a wide range of good and very bad options, and the new author REALLY needs to do his or her homework.

Tony Burton

That is a fact.

Research things, determine whether you want to publish commercially or subsidy.

Check out the small presses which do either or both of those...

find out what they already have published. See if you can get hold of a copy to see the quality...

not only of the content but of the binding, the paper, the cover...

And ask your local bookstore if they will order anything from this publisher, or if they have anything from that publisher...

on their shelves.

Mary Rosenblum

May I recommend that authors check Preditors and Editors for all publishers and agents? They are rated there and if a publisher is really a scam, you'll find out. http://www.anotherealm.com/prededitors

Tony Burton

Yep, that's a great place to look.

galatyne

Speaking of hoping that your efforts pay off.... How do you get the word out about your publishing company so that writers (and readers) find you?

Tony Burton

I do different kinds of marketing. I belong to several online groups, like DorothyL, and I put out the word there.

I send out flyers and postcards.

I try to get involved in things like

a conference at the Muse It Up online site. I participated there last week, and we had over 1,000 participants.

I have an internet radio interview in about a month. There was also an article in the local paper about the By the Chimney With Care book today, too.

Mary Rosenblum

Great!

sly

What is a normal run when you publish a book first time?

Tony Burton

OK, first book printing run. Since I primarily use POD technology, that is not as big an issue. We print as many as we,

think we can use to launch the book. That depends a lot on the enthusiasm of the author, how much he/she is willing

to work to sell the book, how many signings they want to schedule, etc. But, I'd say it would average between

250 and 400 in the first couple of months. Because it IS POD printing, I don't worry about keeping them warehoused.

Ingram orders are printed as needed and shipped, as are Baker & Taylor, Amazon.com, etc.

cherley

Do you contact bookstores?

Tony Burton

Cherley, I do at times. It depends on the book and the contract I have with the author. Sometimes the author simply

wants to subsidy publish something for a special purpose. For example, I published a book of radio plays this year,

which is not a common bookstore item. The author had contacts to sell those books through his website.

But if it is a piece of genre fiction or something the average bookstore would stock, sure, I'll contact them.

The best results are usually when the author goes to a local bookstore where they are known, and they say,

"Hey, Betty, have you seen my latest book? Here it is! You can order them from the publisher or through Ingram".

It's funny... I was told by an "old hand" at this that I would never get any POD published books into a major chain bookstore.

And a Barnes and Noble in Dallas carries my books, and has sold about 45 of them. It can happen, with the right approach.

Mary Rosenblum

You know, Tony, you might want to explain how a book is distributed from publisher to bookstores -- what Ingram and Baker & Taylor, are, for example.

And congrats on the B &N shelf space! Way to go!

Tony Burton

I'm sorry... I make assumptions sometimes. And YES, I feel great about that! But it's all due to a local author going in

there and making the contact... Deborah Elliott-Upton. She's a great author and a good friend.

OK, distribution... it gets complicated, so I'll try to keep it simple for my OWN sake.

Most bookstores want to order through one of two suppliers: Ingram or Baker & Taylor. Baker & Taylor primarily works

with libraries and institutions, but they sell to bookstores, too. Bookshop owners like doing this because, for one thing,

they can consolidate shipments of books and save themselves a heap of money. Plus, they know if it comes through Ingram

usually it's a good bet because to get distributed through Ingram is not an easy thing... it can be costly and time-consuming.

Also, since the Depression, bookstores have had this wonderful commercial advantage-- most of the time they can return unsold stock!

Now nobody else allows that

but book distributors do. It's hellish for publishers and authors, though, because you can actually end up with less

money after selling fifty books and thirty of them have been returned, than you started with!

Ingram make arrangements with publishers

Tony Burton

to carry their books and fulfill orders. Ditto for B & Taylor. They sell, ship, etc., and they collect the money from the bookshops.

They hold the money from the bookshop for ninety days (yep, 90 days!) before releasing it to the publisher.

Mary Rosenblum

(And let's not talk about how long the big publishers hold it before WE get it! Sigh)

Tony Burton

Amen to that, Mary!! But you know, I pay royalties in the same month I receive the money, so I must be doing something right...

Mary Rosenblum

(Woohoo, good for you!)

sol

What a guy!

Tony Burton

LOL!! The authors like it, too.

The ability to order through a central place simplifies the bookshop owners' lives. Let me say something else about Ingram and other distributors.

You may wonder why publishers pay small royalties. Well, there are a lot of reasons, but one biggie is that most book

store owners will not purchase anything without at least a 40% discount. Ingram has a special program for those who want

to get into their distribution network, but you have to apply, pay a special fee PER TITLE of nearly $1,000, and you must

agree to sell that title wholesale with a 55% discount.

That doesn't leave a lot to pay for the book or the author's royalty.

Mary Rosenblum

Tony, you are doing a masterful job of explaining publication very clearly. Thank you. That is usually a big mystery until after you sell a book or two. And that 'right of return' and discount is why many small press publishers do NOT distribute through Ingrams.

Tony Burton

Luckily, I don't go that route to get through Ingram!!

Mary Rosenblum

Really?

So how do you do it?

Tony Burton

Really... can you keep a secret??

Mary Rosenblum

Everybody promises not to tell. J

Tony Burton

Actually, the printer I use has a special arrangement with Ingram... so I can get in there for a MUCH lower price per title

AND I have yet to accept returns on anything I sell through Ingram. It probably reduces the amount I'd sell, but it also

guarantees that I don't get eaten up with return fees.

Mary Rosenblum

The return issue is a hard one. Small independent bookstores can't afford to take no return titles

unless they think they'll sell them all...small publishers can't afford to give it.

Tony Burton

Yes, that's true... it's a conundrum...

Tony Burton

Most authors don't know about the heartache of returns. Let's say I accepted returns on a book that had a margin of

3.50$ per book. I "sold" fifty of them. That's Great!! But after a month, the bookstore chain decides to return 30 of them

I have to give up the money on those thirty, AND if I want to keep the books, I have to pay $2 per copy for return

and THEN I have to pay to have them shipped to me OR pay to have the printer store them somewhere...

sol

Egads!

Tony Burton

Not much left, is there? Especially if I pay to have them shipped or stored.

That is standard practice for returns.

Mary Rosenblum

So what royalty do you pay, Tony?

Tony Burton

I usually negotiate it individually, but I can say that the last couple of contracts I negotiated, I paid a flat amount on

books sold through my website, per book, and a percentage of the net on books sold through national distribution.

It was on a sliding scale... 10% for the first 500 sold that way, 15% for anything over that. But as I say, it will vary.

Mary Rosenblum

The reason I asked, is that most small press publishers pay larger royalties than do the big houses, since they're not taking returns and their distribution is smaller.

geezer

I don't understand. Who pays full price?

Tony Burton

The person who buys at the bookstore, or who buys from my website. The author gets the book for wholesale from me

and when someone buys a book from the website, for example, I may pay per copy sold or or whatever.

If the author wants to sell from his/her website, they can sell it for whatever they want. I'm sorry... that wasn't very clear. I meant: when someone buys a copy from my publishing website, I pay the author a set amount.

charie'

What are POD covers like? A lot of readers judge the book by its cover.

Tony Burton

You can go to my site and see what mine look like. I have done most of the design work there. Thus far, I have only

printed perfect-bound books, no casebound (hardback) books. But I can do them if the need or desire arises.

Our covers are printed on 100# stock, four-color process, and then non-curl (or curl-resistant) laminated.

If your cover is not curl-resistant and you have the books in your garage in a box and it's humid...

the covers can start to curl outward from the cut edge.

Mary Rosenblum

A lot of the cheap POD vanity presses put out a very inferior product.

Do you do much with page design, Tony?

Tony Burton

I know... I had one sent for review and it fell apart in my hands while I was reading it. The pages pulled away from the spine. I use FrameMaker to do page layout, if that is what you mean. Sometimes I put illustrations in the book, as in the Christmas anthology and Seven by Seven.

diana

Does "perfect-binding" refer to paperback books?

Tony Burton

Perfect-bound is the trade term for a paperback that is published with a heavier grade of internal paper and cover paper.

Mary Rosenblum

Oh, cool. J Who does your illustrations?

Tony Burton

I do a lot of work with photographs and such. I take photos, or have others take them, and manipulate them with professional software. And I use stock illustrations for some things. I have a very artistic daughter and son, too.

sly

What determines which manuscripts you accept...and don't?

Tony Burton

Sly, that depends on a number of factors, really.

In general though, I can say I look for someone who has some publishing credits.

And don't say "how do I get them if I can't get a book published!" (There's more coming, trust me.

Where the book has a market appeal.

Where it is appropriate for my target customer population.

Where the author is willing to take the work to make the book the best it can be

and where the author is willing to help market the book. Marketing strategy is part of any contract I have for commercial

publishing.

And about the publishing credits --

Even novelists should try to get short stories published in their chosen genre.

It's rare for ANY publishing house to take a risk on someone who has had nothing published anywhere.

I recently turned down a manuscript because the author had no publishing credits in the genre,

knew no authors in the genre,

had no cogent marketing plan,

and she became angry with me, saying I was using the same mindset as the big publishing houses.

I told her to get a few short stories published, to see if people were willing to publish her short works, and get her name

out in front of people. She still was not happy with me. Oh, well. She'll learn.

Mary Rosenblum

Well, that answers geezer's question about whether short stories counted as publishing credits. Clearly they do.

charie'

Does the Toys for Tots anthology pay royalties or just kudos and publishing credits?

Tony Burton

The Toys for Tots anthology is a special deal... and the authors are wonderful people who donated their work and time.

Tony Burton

They get one copy of the book, a publishing credit, and lots of good "karma" for lack of a better word. ALL the profits --

Tony Burton

that means I don't make anything either-- are going to Toys for Tots. Hey, Speck... how do you like the cover on your book? (For the person who asked about covers...)

charie'

Kudos to you and Speck. J

Mary Rosenblum

Ditto!

scaretactics

Even though you're small, is it still important to have an agent approach you?

Tony Burton

I don't worry about an agent. I really don't care if you have one or not. In fact, an agent might just intimidate me!

Thanks for the kudos, by the way, Charie'.

Mary Rosenblum

Agents rarely if ever deal with small press publishers. No advance. They'll do it for one of their authors, but they won't take you on if you plan to publish with small press.

speckledorf

Haven’t seen my cover.  I'm stalking my postal carrier. Still haven't got my copy...I may have to play Secret Santa with her myself!  J

Mary Rosenblum

Clearly the carrier is reading it, LOL. There's a good review for you!

Tony Burton

LOL!! But I'm surprised! I'll double check and see what's going on.

lorib

The cover is nice and professional looking...not cheap looking at all.

Mary Rosenblum

You have two contributors in the audience.  J

Tony Burton

Oh, hi, Lori! Didn't see you there... sorry!

geezer

Well, I don't want to work as hard as a publisher, so I think I'll stick with writing.

Mary Rosenblum

And that is what I'd really like to thank you for, Tony. Making the really HARD WORK of publishing understandable

tonight. Great job.

Tony Burton

I'll tell you the truth, it's more work for me as a publisher than it is as a writer. As a writer, I deal with my own ego and those of the characters.

As a publisher, I have to deal with the author's ego, too!

Thanks, Mary... I'm enjoying it.

Mary Rosenblum

And by the way, I do have a number of friends who are successful small press publishers, and I’d like to say you have REALLY done your homework, you have your head on totally straight

and if you don't get sick of it and quit, I predict you'll be one of the rare success stories.

Tony Burton

Thanks much for that! I appreciate that very much.

Mary Rosenblum

You have totally impressed me!

sol

Yeah . . . lots of clear examples and such. Thanks Tony.

Mary Rosenblum

Well, we're not kicking you out yet. LOL...I have more questions waiting.

charie'

Are contests where they publish the winner, like submitting for an anthology, but with a fee?

Tony Burton

Thanks... I really had to learn a lot in a short time.

Mary Rosenblum

(Oh, I bet you did!)

Tony Burton

Do you mean do such contests exist at Wolfmont?

Mary Rosenblum

Probably both, Tony.

Do you do that?

Tony Burton

If you do, I ran a contest earlier this year called the "Publish Me!" contest. The author was to submit the first three chapters and a synopsis. I was going to have the manuscripts judged by three published authors: Marilyn Meredith, Rob Walker and Earl Staggs. The winner was going to be published, and get 200 copies of his/her book... But I didn't get enough entrants to make it work.

charie'

What I meant was, do you have contests and are "fee" contests good to enter?

Mary Rosenblum

There's the elucidation

Tony Burton

I do have contests on my Crime and Suspense ezine at times, too. Some are fee-based, some are not. I recently had

a very simple one in conjunction with Warner Bros. They contacted me (shock of shocks!) to ask if I wanted to help

promote their new movie, The Departed.

It was a short-notice sort of thing. So, I put together a quick writing contest where the author had to use certain words

and write a story of between 150 and 250 words. The prizes were small, but there was no fee. I have given away money.

Amazon gift certificates, books. It depends. My ezine, you see, is a free one. No subscription fee, so it all has to

come from SOMEWHERE.

Mary Rosenblum

Think advertising. J

cherley

Someone could put together their own Anthology and have it published through you?

Tony Burton

I have some ads there, but the total thus far has not been enough to pay for a good dinner!

Cherley, yes, they could. As long as it was good work and fit within the parameters I want to publish. I've become a bit

well, conservative is the word, I guess. I had to turn down a well-written, compelling novel because of some of the content

that the author just didn't want to change. And I've reduced the amount of profanity, etc., that I will accept. Sorry, but

that's the way I am working now. I don't censor, in that someone can easily choose to go elsewhere and publish

but if you want to publish a story where the blood runs off the page and little children are tortured, it will have to be elsewhere.

Not that you DO, Cherley!!

Mary Rosenblum

Every publisher has limits for what he/she will take.

cherley

I like that about your publishing company

ashton

Good for you, Tony! Keep up the good work.

Tony Burton

This particular manuscript had a child abducted, molested a