Writing Romance: The Basics with Liz Lounsbury 11/20/03

Mary Rosenblum

Liz Lounsbury was a technical writer for over ten years before she turned her attention to writing fiction. These days, Liz writes short stories and articles as Liz Thompson and books as Liz Jarrett for Harlequin Duets and Harlequin Temptation.

Liz Lounsbury

Hi. It's great to be here.

Mary Rosenblum

Welcome, Liz!

I'm glad you could make it!

Liz Lounsbury

Thanks

Mary Rosenblum

If you're new to the chat site and the Professional Interviews...

So, Liz, how did you get started writing in the first place?

Liz Lounsbury

I'm one of those people who always loved to write. I started as a child, then majored in English in college. I was a technical writer for many years until I got up the nerve to try fiction.

Mary Rosenblum

That must have been quite a change...from technical writing to Romance!

Liz Lounsbury

It was, but one I loved. I work when my children were young for four years before I sold to Harlequin.

Mary Rosenblum

How tough was it to break in with Harlequin? Did they buy your first offering?

I know quite a few people who never did sell there!

Liz Lounsbury

I found out the best way to sell to Harlequin was to just keep submitting until the editors know you. For me, it took three books before they found one they liked (but later I re-wrote those three books and sold them those, too

Mary Rosenblum

Interesting!

So do you get the feeling that they want to see perseverance?

Mary Rosenblum

That maybe they'll be more likely to accept book three than book one?

Liz Lounsbury

I think so. I also think they like to see that you can produce more than one book. They like to buy an author, not just one book.

Mary Rosenblum

How often do they expect a new book from you?

Liz Lounsbury

It's up to the writers. Some produce several a year. Some writers only send in one. They're very nice about letting the writers determine who long they need to write a book.

pook

Liz, do you just do Romance? Do you outline?

Liz Lounsbury

I'm currently working on a book that's more along the lines

of general fiction, but for the most part, I love to write

romance because the stories are very female empowering (which I like!)

Mary Rosenblum

How did you decide on which type of Romance to write?

Liz Lounsbury

I read all the lines, and then picked one that I thought fit my voice.

pook

What kind of direction do they give about plot, endings, chapters?

Liz Lounsbury

They don't give you strict rules about anything except the word count.

They are open to a variety of plots in all the lines, although some have different humor/sexuality/action levels.

Mary Rosenblum

It sounds as if it is worth doing your homework before you submit

so that you submit to the proper line.

Liz Lounsbury

Absolutely. Read from all the lines and find the one that you think fits your writing style.

arfelin

Did you go through an agent to sell your first book.

Liz Lounsbury

No. And an agent isn't necessary at all to sell to Harlequin or Silhouette.

Mary Rosenblum

Do you use an agent, or are their contracts pretty straightforward?

Liz Lounsbury

I have an agent now because I'm expanding beyond Harlequin, but

the Harlequin/Silhouette contracts only have so much negotiation

room in them when your a new writer.

pook

Are your plots and characters based on real life?

Liz Lounsbury

Not really, at least nothing that's happened to me. But I do draw...

from my own life experiences. I try to think of a cute

situation, then throw two completely different people into it

and see what happens to them.

Mary Rosenblum

So there is hope for us writers with utterly non-romantic lives? I'm laughing!

Liz Lounsbury

Of course. I've been married for decades!

pumpkin

What is the usual amount of words that they want in a story?

Liz Lounsbury

It depends on which line you're going for. I write Temptations, which are 60,000

words, or approximately 240 manuscript pages.

Some of the lines are shorter (Silhouette romance is 50,000).

Many of them are longer. The eharlequin.com site http://www.eharlequin.com/cms/index.jhtml

lists all of the word counts for each line.

Mary Rosenblum

Well, you answered my next question nicely! Thank you!

patchworkcat

Do you generally begin with a character and build the plot around her, or do you begin with a plot and create the characters to fit the plot?

Liz Lounsbury

I am more of a plot person. I think of a situation, then

toss in people. Many writers like to start with the characters

first because it helps them develop the story. I think every

writer eventually figures out a style that works for her/him.

Mary Rosenblum

I agree. I think it's totally a matter of how words work for YOU, the author!

pook

Can you sell to both Harlequin and Silhouette?

Liz Lounsbury

Yes. Several writers do. I tend to sell mostly to the Harlequin Toronto

office, but there's no reason I can't submit to the

Silhouette lines in New York. They do like you to submit

all your work through one editor. Oh, and they do keep a database

of your submissions, so they do know what you've sent.

Mary Rosenblum

Harlequin and Silhouette are actually the same company, are they not?

Liz Lounsbury

Yes, they are, although they have three different offices --

Toronto, New York and London.

speckledorf

Which do you find easier to sell...strong internal or external conflict...or does the book need both?

Liz Lounsbury

The book has to have both in a romance, with the internal

conflict being more important. Sure, the hero and heroine will have

an external problem to overcome, but it's the romance that's

the main focus. What internal baggage is keeping these people from

falling in love. How do they have to change as people before

they can find their happily ever after? The great thing about

romance is that the characters always are different people.

by the end of the book than they were in the beginning. They've grown and changed

through the story, and it's great as a writer to make that happen.

Mary Rosenblum

Our audience has lots of questions about a host of questions, but before we get to them all, I'd like your opinion on what makes a Romance, rather than a story with a romantic interest?

Liz Lounsbury

A romance has to have a happy ending. Romantic stories don't.

But a romance has to be a one man/one woman story where they end up together.

pook

Can you have third person come in and she winds up with him?

Liz Lounsbury

Not in a traditional romance. Your hero and heroine end up together.

However, you can write a different kind of story. Chick Lit, which is what Red Dress Ink is,

doesn't require the one man/one woman happy ending

and it is produced by Harlequin, also. But still is considered a romantic story.

Mary Rosenblum

I can see the questions coming! :-) Want to define chick-lit for our audience?

Liz Lounsbury

Chick Lit is what stories like Bridget Jones are.

They are about young women who are starting out in

life, building a career, making great female friends, and

dating men. They don't always find Mr. Right, and they

aren't looking for him. In some Chick Lit stories

the heroine does fall in love, but not in all.

elisabetam

How helpful are the editors with assisting new writers? Are they looking for a perfect-ready-to-publish ms or will they assist you as you start out?

Liz Lounsbury

If your story has potential, they will work with you.

Basically, they're always looking for new writers so

they go out of their way to encourage you.

pook

Is an office a good setting for a romance story? How about setting one in the 70s?

Liz Lounsbury

An office is a great place as long as you make certain

there is no chance of any hint of sexual harassment.

Make certain your characters have equal status

in the office, and then you're safe.

1970 is a tough decade to sell simply because contemporary

romances are modern and historicals are set before WWI.

But if the story calls, you write it. That's what matters. Writing what you love.

Mary Rosenblum

That is always good advice!

wendyhaber

Is there an age range that you need to stay within? Or can you write a romance about older people?

Liz Lounsbury

Many publishers said at the Romance Writers' of America conference this.

summer that they are interested in older characters.

Liz Lounsbury

Many of those publishers produce what is called single

titles, which are longer books. But Harlequin and Silhouette sometimes

have older characters. Most of the line favor characters in their late 20s and in their 30s.

patchworkcat

I thought Harlequin was mostly European writers while Silhouette was designed to promote the American view.

Liz Lounsbury

Harlequin London, which produces Harlequin Romance, Harlequin

Presents, and the Harlequin Medical Romances have a

European flavor, although many of their writers

are American and Canadian. Harlequin Toronto, which

produces Temptation, Blaze, Flipside, and Superromace

is very American in flavor. Silhouette, which is

in New York, is also very American. For the most part

the Harlequin London lines have the most exotic

locales, with the other lines favoring more "close to home" locations.

sailor

One of your books is a Harlequin Duet, but the Harlequin web site does not list this imprint. Has the imprint been discontinued?

Liz Lounsbury

It has been replaced by the Harlequin Flipside line,

which are longer romantic comedies and it's currently

Liz Lounsbury

looking for new writers so it's a great place to break in!

pumpkin

So if they are all the sme company, do you send in a manuscript and they pick which line it goes to, or do you pick the line you want to submit to before you send it in?

Liz Lounsbury

You need to direct your manuscript to a specific line.

Read a lot within that line and try to hit the basic tone and

feel of the line. The editors will want to see that you've

done your homework, that you understand what readers

of that line are expecting, and that you've produced a

story as a professional writer that meets those reader expectations.

pook

Do you submit an outline to the editors to make sure it's not too much like an existing story?

Liz Lounsbury

I submit what's called a proposal, which is a synopsis and the

first three chapters. Your synopsis is a present tense telling

of the main storyline. You explain how the characters meet, what

their conflicts are (both external and internal),

how the plot unfolds, what causes them to fall in love,

what problems they have to overcome, and how

they changes during the story so that by the end,

they are different and able to fall in love.

Mary Rosenblum

That's a very complete how-to, Liz! Thanks!

sailor

Is there a way to find out the relative sales volume of the various imprints within a publisher to help decide which imprint to write for?

Liz Lounsbury

I've seen a couple of lists, but they changed so often

that you're never sure what's "hot" are the moment.

Truthfully, the best way is to find a line you like that suits

your writing voice and target that one. If you

decide after you've sold to that line that you want to

move to another line you feel is selling better, then you'll

be in a good position to do so. But if you're writing simply to sell

you may not write a book that suits your voice, so it may not sell.

wendyhaber

Is there a cozy line or light romance?

Liz Lounsbury

Flipside are light, fun romances. Harlequin Romance and Silhouette romance are sweet romances.

elisabetam

Are there any romances where the main character is the hero and not the heroine?

Liz Lounsbury

Absolutely. Most romance feature both the hero's and the

heroine's point of view. The dominate character varies

depending on the story. Sometimes, the hero is the one who

has the strongest character arc so he is the main focus.

Mary Rosenblum

Interesting, Liz. I haven't read widely in the genre

but I did get the sense that they main character was always the woman. Nice to know it's more flexible than that.

elisabetam

You use a number of pen names. Can you explain why you chose to use them and how they work for you?

Liz Lounsbury

Liz Jarrett was sometime Harlequin and I picked it because

people have a lot of trouble pronouncing Lounsbury

although I don't know why. Liz Thompson is my maiden name

and I've used that for many years with articles and short

stories, even before I was married. Harlequin and

Silhouette don't always insist on a pen name.

Mary Rosenblum

Do they prefer you to use different names for different lines, assuming you write for more than one?

Liz Lounsbury

No, they like you to use one name so readers remember you.

Many writers have developed very strong following who

will read across lines because they love a particular author.

mbvoelker

Can you blend other genres with romance? Such as romance in a fantasy setting?

Liz Lounsbury

Absolutely. Silhouette has a new line, Luna, that has

fantasy in it. They also have a new line, Bombshell,

that's female action adventure, like Laura Croft.

Mary Rosenblum

I've posted the links to those fantasy Romances on the website

in the New Market topic, in Writing Craft for those of you who are interested.

paja

What is a Character Arc?

Liz Lounsbury

It's how your character changes as a person

through the course of the story. Think of Luke in

Star Wars. In the beginning, he's kind of a whimpy farm boy

but he's also a dreamer. He goes through the adventure

and changes inside as a person. He discovers things

about himself and strength within himself he never knew he had. At the end

of the story, he's a different person than at the beginning.

pook

Do you show both POVs? The man's and the woman's?

Liz Lounsbury

In a Harlequin or Silhouette you do. Some single title romances don't, but most do. Chick Lit

however, often only gives the woman's POV, and it is often

Liz Lounsbury

written in first person.

pook

How do they feel about infidelity?

Liz Lounsbury

It's isn't allowed in a traditional romance. It's not that your

characters have to be perfect, but they must be basically

honorable people or your readers won't care about

them. Infidelity does happen in Chick LIt books, but

again, if you want readers to like your characters, you'd

need to handle it carefully.

sailor

Can you elaborate on what is meant by European vs American flavor. Is it more than just setting?

Liz Lounsbury

Typically, it's the locations and they language. Most

Harlequin Presents tend to take place in locations

in Europe and the characters, often the hero

is European. Harlequin Toronto and Silhoutte lines

tend to have heroes and heroines who are either American or Canadian

and they stories tend to take place in North America.

mbvoelker

How do you convey the feel of falling in love without being trite, cliched, or sappy? So often I end up laughing at romance characters instead of with them.

Liz Lounsbury

It has to come from the characters. When it seems silly is

when writers don't let their characters do the talking. For

instance, if you have a Navy Seal, he isn't going to go

all mushy on page 285 and tell her she's the

sweetie pie sugar plum of his heart. But he's going to

find some way to tell this woman what she means to him, and

that way is going to be unique to him. When writers

mess up, it's because they think they have to follow a

formula, but just like with any genre fiction, the formula isn't

a recipe on how to write. It's a framework within which you

need to weave your own unique story populated with.

unique characters.

Mary Rosenblum

Liz, I think you have put your finger -- very articulately -- on a major myth,

which is that a genre like Romance is a formula

Mary Rosenblum

and as long a you follow it, the book doesn't really have to be GOOD, or the characters real.

Liz Lounsbury

I know. Many new writers think that, and until they realize...

that's not true, they can't sell. A romance needs a hero, a heroine, a happy ending. That's it.

That's the limit of the formula. Now, you as a writer need

to make these people come to life. Who are they? What

problems do they face, what sort of people are they

and most of all, remember that their main focus is not

falling in love. In fact, falling in love is the last thing these

people want to do. Falling in love is never the goal of either the hero or the heroine.

pook

Suppose a man had a midlife crisis and the story is about his finding a new love? Would that work?

Liz Lounsbury

Not as a romance if it's a traditional midlife crisis where

he leaves his wife and children. You could write a

mainstream book, but your audience for that would

be male. Most romance readers (although not by any means all) are

female and most females won't find a male midlife crisis romantic.

Mary Rosenblum

What if SHE is the one seeking a new love and her husband has betrayed her?

Or would she have to stumble into a new love?

Liz Lounsbury

She wouldn't be able to be married and stumble into

a new love in a traditional romance. Again, you'd have

to go mainstream if she's married at the beginning. Now if she finds

out her husband is cheating on her and the story

shows her leaving him and building a new life for

herself, then you could easily create a romance. But

remember, her character arc is important, so she'd

need to leave him/kick him out if he's cheating on

her or the reader isn't going to like her.

Mary Rosenblum

So that infidelity barrier is really an absolute in Romance? No matter what? She needs a divorce or at least a formal separation?

Liz Lounsbury

In a traditional romance, which is what Harlequin/Silhouette and most single title houses...

publish, infidelity is looked on as a major character flaw because

let's face it, it is. Cheating on your spouse isn't romantic.

Sure it happens, but in a romance, you want to have characters

who are basically decent people. If they cheat, the reader is going

to turn your book into what is called wallbanger--the reader throws it

against the wall in disgust. So if you want to have infidelity in

your story, I'd suggest you direct to a market that is more

receptive to that and whose readers won't mind.

Mary Rosenblum

I've read books like that! Had to fix a few dents in the plasterboard, too! :-)

paja

Did you have to "train up" to write the quantity of words required for the novels?

Liz Lounsbury

No. I try to develop a story with enough plot and a strong enough

subplot to fit the length. I found the best way to get a sense of

that was to read extensively in a line before I sat down

to write my own story. I got a real feel for the plot depth, the

story length, etc, from reading a lot of them. Then

my own stories just seem to click in my mind and turn out...

to be around the right length.

Mary Rosenblum

That's a great way to do it, Liz, especially for a new writer, who hasn't had the experience

with novel length work and can't judge word counts from the beginning!

Good advice!

arfelin

Do settings have to have a glamorous flavor or can they take place in a setting such as the northwoods?

Liz Lounsbury

Actually, for the most part, Harlequin and Silhouette don't

like exotic settings. They prefer everyday settings because

they say their readers like the idea that something as interesting...

as the story they're reading can happen "right in their own backyard." So for the most

part, simply write about a location with which you're familiar.

Mary Rosenblum

For example, your day job! :-)

red2

You may think this crazy, but I feel the original Terminator movie was a great romance story. Not the violence, of course or the terminator. But the man and woman's love was the stuff of a great romance.

Liz Lounsbury

I agree completely. It was a wonderful story of two people falling

in love under terrible circumstances. Although it's not

a romance because sadly there is no happily ever after, it is very much a romantic story.

Mary Rosenblum

Romance like this plays a big role in many genre fiction works.

I have one in my current SF novel, as a matter of fact. :-)

karebear29

How does Harlequin pay ?

Mary Rosenblum

In general, Liz! :-)

Liz Lounsbury

That depends on the line and how many books they sell. Advances are usually in the low thousands range for beginning writers.

Then you earn royalties on the books. Some lines earn out in the low teens (as in thousands. Some in the mid 20s)...

Extremely popular authors can earn much more. Single titles sometimes earn more, but often

earn less than category because with category romances

you have a built in audience of readers who buy all the books

in a line each month. There are also book club sales that can add up. Again, I'd focus on writing

a book you love, then the rest is icing on the cake as a writer.

Mary Rosenblum

The low thousands is pretty standard for nearly all genres where first novel sales are concerned,

but remember...you get royalties on every book sold, and from what publishers and editors tell me

the Romance readership base is the largest one out there, so your earning potential is good.

Liz Lounsbury

It is, and the books are translated, so you get money for years.

Mary Rosenblum

Nice! And no agent fees for marketing the book overseas! :-)

pook

Do they tell you why when they reject you?

Liz Lounsbury

Usually. If you've missed the mark by a lot, you may get a

form rejection, but most of the editors try to tell you why

they are saying no. And the closer you are to the sale, the more

details they will give you. Often, they'll tell you what to change

and ask you to resubmit the book. But beware, the wait time

to hear back can be several months (several several months) when

you're first starting out. So write a book you love, send it off, then write another and send it off.

Mary Rosenblum

Excellent advice for any book! Wait times are awful for all traditional publishers!

wendyhaber

How many Romances do you need to read before you write?

Liz Lounsbury

That depends on how quickly you get a feel for what

you want to do. I will caution you. If you don't like romances, don't write one.

You may think you can fool the editors and the readers, but I've never met

a writer of any genre fiction who didn't write what they love. Your

enthusiasm for the story is what makes it unique and fun to read. If you're

simply plopping words on the page, it will show. I would

suggest you decide what you love to read and what you truly love to write

and that will be where you have your best chance of selling.

sailor

I read that Harlequin books are on the shelf for 30 days. Then they are pulled to make room for next month's titles. Can you really get money for years on one book? Are there that many translations done?

Liz Lounsbury

Yes, they are on the shelf for one month. But it takes about three to four years for a book

to collect all the money it will earn. For one thing

the translations

go on for two to three years, and some countries earn almost as the North

American sales. Then there is a lag time on some bookstores reporting

so not all your sales show up for some time. I have a book

that was out in January, 2000, that's still earning me a little money. It's

actually one of the fun things about writing category.

You keep getting money long after the book was on the shelf.

wendyhaber

Is each book an entirely new setting with new characters?

Mary Rosenblum

Good question. Are there any series?

Liz Lounsbury

Series are beloved in category. My last Duets was

a four book contract about three brothers and a sister. Readers

love series and editors like it when writers propose series. The sales

for later books in a series are almost built in. As a new writer, you can still

suggest a series idea, although I'd only submit the first story. But definitely

mention that you're planning on developing other characters in your book.

roe

Would a new author submit the entire ms or query?

Liz Lounsbury

Harlequin and Silhouette ask you to query first. Some writers don't, but I followed

the rules and found the editors appreciated it. I'd write a strong query letter

first, explaining what line you're targeting, what your story is, what the conflicts are.

Mention if you've won any writing contests or sold any books. But don't tell them your friends like

it. Let the editor decide for herself how she feels about it.

Mary Rosenblum

That's good advice for any query!

paja

Thank you for encouraging me to follow my heart rather than press myself to produce for dollars. That's freeing me up inside.

Liz Lounsbury

It's also the only way to sell. I know, it seems odd, but it is the truth. The books that sell are the

ones where you can tell the writer loved what she was writing. As a reader

you know when you are reading someone who has enthusiasm for what

she's doing. By the same token, we've all read things

where the writing may be technically fine, but there's no

spark, not fire. As writers, no sale is ever a slam dunk, but it you

want to increase your odds, write what you love. It reallly does

jump off the page at the editor.

Mary Rosenblum

This is true for writing in general. While I know pros who have an eye on the bottom line when they choose a project

they are still writing stories they care about.

Liz Lounsbury

True.

Mary Rosenblum

Liz, I'd like to hear more about the Romances YOU write.

What are your lines like? One is Romantic comedy, right?

Liz Lounsbury

I write for Duets (well, now it will be Flipside) and Temptation. Flipside are romantic

comedies, which I love. I think nothing is more fun than falling

in love. I also write for Temptation, which are sexy, fun books. I like

to write both kinds because they let me have humor and they

let me explore the characters in more depth.

Mary Rosenblum

What is your writing rhythm like? How long does it take you to complete one of your books?

Liz Lounsbury

A 60,000 word Temptation (about 240 pages) takes me about three months to

write because I don't push myself too hard. I like to

give myself time to do a rough draft, let it sit for a couple of

weeks, then revisit it and rework it.

Mary Rosenblum

How many drafts do you do?

Liz Lounsbury

Usually three, although sometimes more. I'm a

green dreck writer, meaning I write the first draft straight

through. It isn't pretty, but it's me getting the framework

down. I find if I plow through and don't stop, my mind drops

in all sorts of great twists and surprises I'd never even

considered when I did the synopsis. When I go back and start fleshing out

that first draft, I then am able to start focusing more. I add

character depth, strengthen the motivations, start smoothing the text. Then

after it sits for a couple of weeks, I find I'm able to start polishing.

Mary Rosenblum

Do you try for four books a year, then? Or fewer?

Liz Lounsbury

In a normal year, I try for three to four. Over the last two

year period, I will have written six, but during part of that time, my husband was ill

and I wasn't writing a lot. He's great now, but I always

give myself the freedom to put my writing aside and focus

on life if I need to. Stephen King once said that his early mistake

was thinking his writing was more important. But life is. And life is what makes you a great writer.

Mary Rosenblum

I heartily agree. And I really think that integrating your writing with your life enriches both.

Liz Lounsbury

So true.

Mary Rosenblum

Do the Romances make the best seller list ever, Liz?

Liz Lounsbury

Often. Nora Roberts sells more books than about anyone (well, except JK Rowlilng). But many, many romances

make both the NY Times and the USA Today bestseller lists every week.

Mary Rosenblum

That, for all of you out there, is a VERY impressive statistic!

So what is your next book ...books...out?

Liz Lounsbury

My next one is a Temptation called EVERY STEP YOU TAKE about in July, 2004. It will be followed

by another currently untitled (and currently unwritten--ssssh!) Temptation due

out in late 2004 or early 2005.

Mary Rosenblum

Nice lineup! I'll have to get them! :-)

pook

How do you keep getting ideas with so books out there?

Liz Lounsbury

I never seem to run out of ideas. I'm a what if person. I stand in the grocery store and think, what if I

get out to the parking lot and someone has smashed into

my car and the police come and I find out it was

intentional. Okay, so now it's no longer me and it's no longer

my car. But what if it's the heroine, and what if she's

got a threatening note on her car when she gets there. What would she do? Who

would she get to help her? What if is a writer's best tool.

Mary Rosenblum

There you go, all! Something to do, next time you're stuck in traffic or in that long line at the cash register! :-)

brindle

What is it that makes a writer succeed--what characteristic of their work?

Mary Rosenblum

This is a good closing question!

Liz Lounsbury

Again, I think there are two things you can do and this really is the secret of success.

First, as I said, figure out what you love to write and write it. Don't let

people tell you to do something else, don't let others make fun of what you're

writing, and always remember in the words of Dennis Polumbo, a

wonderful writer, that you are enough. You have within you the desire to write, you will develop

your skills so you can write if you desire to, and then you can be the writer you want to be. And the second secret

is to write a book, submit it, write another book, submit it, etc. By

writing constantly, you are getting better day by day, and by submitting, you

are making sure you maximize your odds. If you love to write, write. Selling will happen.

Mary Rosenblum

Liz, I couldn't have put it better myself! Ditto, ditto!

arfelin

To me, it's like a natural high to write something you love. That's what keeps me at it:-)

Mary Rosenblum

You have been a wonderful guest, Liz.

Liz Lounsbury

Thank you so much for having me. I had a wonderful time.

Mary Rosenblum

And I really really thank you for coming to spend this evening with us!

You were GREAT!

Please say you'll come back again? :-)

Liz Lounsbury

I'd love to. I adore chatting about writing.

Mary Rosenblum

Lovely! I'll schedule you for next year!

paja

Clap! Clap! Applause. Standing Applause. Thanks.

wendyhaber

Thank you soooo much, Liz and Mary!

Mary Rosenblum

Thank you all for coming.

And good night!