Mary Rosenblum:  Nice to see you all here this fall evening.  I wanted to talk about careers in writing today.  The publishing industry, both fiction and nonfiction, is changing at a breakneck pace and it's really changing the way writers can make a living in this field.  I don't think we're going to see stability here for some years, but eventually, the world of words for sale is going to be considerably different, I suspect. Right now, things are in flux.  You can make money in two arenas in this field: Fiction and nonfiction.  Nonfiction has always been the reliable money maker, whether you write ad copy, do white papers, technical writing, or publish in the NF magazines. The pay has always been considerably better than for fiction, and best in the nonfiction publishing area of the field.
What do you mean by white papers Mary?
Mary Rosenblum:  That has to do with academic papers, and it's not an area I'm particularly familiar with.  If you don't have connections to academia, it's not something you're going to gain entry to. But people do write for researchers who can't write.
Any  information on Demand Studios? I just read about them. sounded very interesting
Mary Rosenblum:  I don't know that one, bss, is it one of those 'write articles for us and people vote on them' sites?
They sound to good to be true.
Mary Rosenblum:  Anything that sounds too good to be true IS DLB.  That is a rule.  It's the flip side of the 'there is no free lunch' coin.  Realize folks that one of the hot new ways to make a living in the publishing world is to scam folk like you.  The ways abound!
 So if an ad says send us articles make at least 10 dollars per hour I should be suspicious?
Mary Rosenblum:  David, that 10 bucks per hour sounds like those 'work at home and make 90,000 a year, part time'.
 What about all these websites and writing mags that promise help to writers?
Mary Rosenblum:  If they're offering knowledge so that you can improve and sell, that's great. You have to be a wary consumer.  And always 'look under the hood'.
Well, I was reading one that said they help you contact lots of editors, agents and people in the business. Can they?
Mary Rosenblum:  So can you, DLB. Will that agent listen to them any more than they'll listen to you? How do you know?
You don't.
So long as we are talking about writing careers how about the career path. My instructor told me one starts with the small plankton and work up the food chain (my words not hers) no short cuts
Mary Rosenblum:  David you are totally right.  That is how you make the decent money. The little mags won't pay big bucks.  The 'hobby' mags (dogs, horses, flying, etc) won't pay big bucks.  But they can make nice clips.   But the larger the circulation you've written for, the better you get at writing tight and short, the more likely you are to get in with the mags that DO pay.
What are clips?  A publisher wanted to see my clips
Mary Rosenblum:  Blynn, clips are copies of your published work.

A lot of my stuff is online.  What if you have no clips to send in?
Mary Rosenblum:  Send the editor links to the piece, blynn.
Mary why is it that the in print publications generally pay something semi decent where as the on line webzines pay little?
Mary Rosenblum:  David because nobody pays for online content.  The magazine is probably funded by the editor's VISA card.  Even the big mags pay less if you write for their website than if you write for the print mag. So...as to how you transition to more pay, David, you have to query editors and offer them what they want and need. Not what you happen to want to sell.
What  about when books transition to e books? aren't most works going digital/on line?

Mary Rosenblum:  They are, and alas, the sales on ebooks is still abysmal.  Maybe, if Kindle catches on that will improve.  One of the problems in publishing right now is that people do NOT want to pay for online stuff.  So as print mags move to the internet, they're finding it very hard to make any money.  The advertisers aren't there yet. So they just don't have income. They don't attract the big pros, therefore, so you have less competition. But not much if any money either. And not a lot of respect unless it's something like 'Wired'.
Mary, what do you think of literary mags? are they hard to break in?

Mary Rosenblum:  No more than any other fiction magazine.  The literary mags are not commercial, so they don’t have to please readers in order to survive. The editor publishes what he or she thinks is good fiction.  If he or she thinks your story is good fiction, you’re in!
Is online work good for getting clips for printed publishers?
Mary Rosenblum:    depends, DLB.  If it's a little site that nobody has ever heard of, well, at least you can say you have a clip.  It's like publishing in your church's newsletter. It's a clip.
I have work I did for a former employer- making training manuals but there is no way I could get copies of that work for a publisher.
Mary Rosenblum:  Just cite it, blynn. If you do technical writing for a big company like Microsoft, they know you can at least do that sort of writing professionally. They don't want to read it.
So how can you break into larger mags?
Mary Rosenblum:  You know, David, and all of you, part of making a living as a writer is your market research.  There's no magic machine where you insert your mss and it is matched to a publisher. Wouldn't that be nice? You do have to put in the hours finding markets you can get your foot into.  I figure one year of back issues gives you a good sense of what that magazine editor wants, needs, and has already published.  One year.  Then, you offer something that has NOT been in the mag but is just the kind of thing that the editor often publishes. Your query gets turned down. Fine. You offer another article.  And a third. If you're in the ballpark, offering stuff the editor COULD use but for whatever reason  he/she does not want this one, about that time, you'll get an assignment. Write this for me.
So stick to one mag/editor until it clicks.
Mary Rosenblum:  That’s a good way to start. Then try other magazines in the same area of interest.    

 How do you keep track of expenses and such.
Mary Rosenblum:   Blynn, I log all my expenses. 
Mary, can we take Writer's mag. as an example? I have had a subscription for more than two years. when can I break in? where do I need to publish first in order to show them my clips?
Mary Rosenblum:  Well, Milly, if you've had your sub for two years, you know it.  Let’s analyze it. What is the audience for WritersMag? Whom are the advertisers targeting?

Writers like us.

Mary Rosenblum:  Right, Milly. So what types of articles does the editor include every issue? Do you know?

How to avoid 10 common mistakes, etc..
Mary Rosenblum:   So, Milly, they have 'how to' articles, right?  Who writes these? Published authors?

Yes

Mary Rosenblum:   So you probably can't write those pieces for them yet. Do they have articles written by new writers at all?

In boring sections only, Mary

Mary Rosenblum:  Well, can you write something for those 'boring' sections that isn't boring? Humorous? Do they pay for those?  That's your break in point. Do they do interviews with writers?

I'm sure they do Mary

Mary Rosenblum:   Do an interview. Ask someone.  Chynna Laird sold an interview with me to Writers Market. It's in this year's edition. Lots of words! Nice pay.  That's how you find your way in. You analyze the magazine. Can I write something that suits them? What? Then you do that.
Mary, One magazine I've been wanting to write for is Backpacker. but they have covered it seems nearly every aspect of backpacking. If a new trail gets built, some freelancer on other side of the country somehow manages to get something in there before the trail is even open! I had the experience!
Mary Rosenblum:  That’s hard. Someone else has better contacts than you, that’s all.  But look at what they ‘got in there’.  Did they hike it?  Is there a different slant you can take?  Six months or a year after that first article on the new trail, a different take on it is doable.  Or a different take on it in three months is doable if it’s significantly different.   

 Mary, I have a question about Asimov's sience fiction magazine. I've read an issue and loved it, but someone said that they were no longer in business. Is that true?
Mary Rosenblum:  Awlop, they're quite nicely in business.   So is Analog. And EQ and Hitchcock.
Is the fiction market much different from the nonfiction markets?
Mary Rosenblum:  DLB the fiction market is VASTLY different. There it's strictly numbers. You offer a book, the publisher thinks it will sell a lot, they buy it.  If it DOES sell a lot, they'll buy another.  If it doesn't sell well, they're not going to buy any more from you. Not in today's market. Fiction is not a reliable way to pay the mortgage.
Does having a website or blog help convince publishers to buy from you?
Mary Rosenblum:  Not unless it's so cool that people are passing the link to it all over the internet, DLB.
On the flip side of DLB's question - Does having a blog hurt your chances of getting published?
Mary Rosenblum:  Probably not, blynn. Unless it's really offensive. :-)  A really cool blog that does 'go viral' will certainly help you get published!  But wanting to do that and actually doing it are kind of separate things.
So would you say Mary that marketing and learning to write well are equally important? seems you need both to get anywhere with NF

Mary Rosenblum:  David, if you want to make a living at writing you must learn to market ,your work. Nobody comes knocking on your door to ask for it. You  can get published by writing a bunch of stuff and sending it around. Eventually somebody will buy something if you're a decent writer.  That's a lot different than counting on those checks to pay the rent. It is a LOT different.
Having a blog is NOT considered being published - right?  So can you submit work that you have posted on your blog?
Mary Rosenblum:  Yes, a blog is published.  Don't put work on it that you want to sell first rights on!
So don't quit our day jobs, ehh?
Mary Rosenblum:   Good day jobs (or a spouse with a good day job) are a GREAT benefit to a writer! I've made my living writing and I worked my tail off.  I love the regular paycheck I get from teaching and to be honest, I find teaching writing to be as creatively satisfying as writing, so I'm happy doing both. :-)  Writing to pay the bills is a job like any other. For freelance, you plan trips to gather material that will translate into thousands of dollars of articles over the year. You pay for those trips, but they net you profit. Fiction is less predictable.  If your stuff is popular, you're going to need to keep it up, turn books in when your publisher demands and hope your numbers don't fall! Save your money!

It’s hard to travel if you don’t have the money.
Mary Rosenblum:   You have to start closer to home, Blynn.  Chose that area you can access resources that aren't too far away and concentrate on it.  The more contacts you make, the easier it is to get the expert quotes you need, the less you have to work.  Remember, it's not what you know, you're not usually the expert, it's whom you can contact, what information you can gather that matters.  That's the reason to focus on one area of interest at a time -- gardening, pets, flying, scuba diving, travel, what have you.On quoting experts: Do I have to ask for permission from people before I quote them? for example, Dr. Rassmussen said that keeping hygiene is key to preventing the flu.
I really should have majored in investigative journalism instead of Biology. Seems writing is very similar to investigative journalism.
Mary Rosenblum:   There are some similarities. 

What if you write a piece on a historical person and don't know how to contact an expert on that person?
Mary Rosenblum:   You will have trouble selling it, awlop, unless it's a personal narrative. Editors want significant original source material.
So the image of the solitary writer holed up in his little cabin.. that isn't reality is it Mary? he really needs to be social and out there
Mary Rosenblum:   Well, you spend plenty of time in your cabin in front of the computer, but unless you're writing the Great American Novel from your head, you'd better be out there researching.  In NF editors DO want original source material. That means you talk to someone who's an expert. Keep your mind on what you're doing.  You're at a barbecue and find out your neighbor's brother in law is a musician in an up and coming band. Bingo!  Remember...every major source should get you several articles.
Wait a sec.. every contact several articles?
Mary Rosenblum:   One of my NF students holds my unofficial record to date...seven sold articles from one...ONE...interview.  Not bad, eh?
How does one get seven articles from ONE interview?
Mary Rosenblum:   She interviewed an artist...got really interested, spent a lot of time with her. She sold stuff to art magazines, women's magazines, health and spirituality mags, used different slants.   Every article was different, every one sold, and she may have eventually done more than seven. That was the last 'head count' I heard.
She had to repeat herself at some point.
Mary Rosenblum:   Not in the same way. Each article was written for a different mag, a different audience, different interests.
Mary supposing I am interviewing someone and trying to take notes. I may forget some stuff or not take it all down. Is it commonly acceptable to contact the person later for extra info?
Mary Rosenblum:   Absolutely, David, but always ask if that's okay.  Then make sure you get a contact email or number. I suggest email for follow-up.
Mary if you do submit to multiple magazines, do you let them know that different forms of this article has gone out to different places?
Mary Rosenblum:   No, blynn, because it is NEVER the same article. The topic is the same, but the slant and wording are not. Topics are not copyrighted. Words are.  Always think about 'how can I use this'.