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Mary Rosenblum
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Hello all. I hope you've
enjoyed this first week of March.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Spring is out there under all
that snow.
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Mary Rosenblum
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I thought I'd talk about
collaboration tonight.
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Mary Rosenblum
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This is when two or more
people get together to work on one story or novel or what have you.
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info
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sure love to send you some Iowa snow,
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Mary Rosenblum
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You'd have to swap for my
all-day-pouring-rain, info. :-)
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Mary Rosenblum
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Collaborations can be a lot of
fun. And creatively challenging.
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Mary Rosenblum
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If the story is to feel
seamless, the contributors will have to blend their individual styles.
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Mary Rosenblum
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It's an excellent prompt to
write a bit differently than you normally do. And it can be a case of
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Mary Rosenblum
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the whole being greater than
the sum of its parts since you have two creative minds tackling each
plotting problem.
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Mary Rosenblum
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However...
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Mary Rosenblum
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as with a marriage or any
contractual agreement, all is not necessarily 'happily ever after'.
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Mary Rosenblum
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I have seen some very ugly
situations develop between former friends over disputed work.
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geezer
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Would collaboration be a good
way for a newbie to learn?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Sure.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Whether you collaborate with
another novice or are lucky enough to hook up with a pro.
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Mary Rosenblum
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A few established writers to partner
with new writers. Anne McCaffery does it all the time.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Her name helps sell the book
and she mostly works with the plot and editing.
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charie'
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That's always troubled me.
Bouncing ideas off one another is great but the actual division of who
writes what bothers me.
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Mary Rosenblum
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That varies.
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Mary Rosenblum
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I've collaborated with a
couple of other writers. I love collaborations. :-)
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Mary Rosenblum
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In one case we each took one
of two POV characters. He wrote the scenes where his character was the POV
and I wrote the scenes where my character was POV.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Then we both polished until
everything gleamed.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Our goal was to make it
impossible for the reader to say 'you did this one and she did that one'.
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Mary Rosenblum
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And we succeeded. :-)
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charie'
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Is it essentially playing editor
for each other to get that polish?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Yes. You need to minimize the
differences in style.
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Mary Rosenblum
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A bunch of New Mexico writers
collaborate frequently.
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snow
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how?
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Mary Rosenblum
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How what, snow? How to
minimize differences in style?
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snow
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yes
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Mary Rosenblum
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That's where the editing comes
in. You try to make everything smooth. Your partner does the same.
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Mary Rosenblum
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When I've done it, we would
finish a scene, hash out the details of the next scene and when that scene
was written and we were both satisfied, we'd hash out the next scene.
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speckledorf
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Erin Hunter who writes the
Warrior series with cats is actually two people. They take turns writing
the books. I've read six so far and can't tell the difference in style.
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Mary Rosenblum
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If you and your partner write
in a fairly similar style, it's not going to be hard.
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geezer
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Would it be easier with
non-fiction than fiction?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Probably. Unless you're
writing personal narrative, style is not an issue in nonfiction.
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snow
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my partner is a romance wirter
and I'm not
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snow
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I mostly write mystery or
suspence
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Mary Rosenblum
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On the other hand, snow, the
two of you could team up to do something like a romantic mystery. Your
partner would know how a romance needs to work, you know how suspense
works.
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robastor
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From my own expeirence, some
people really click together as collaberating partners. It's almost like
reading each other's minds. ;-)
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Mary Rosenblum
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I have to say that I have only
been interested in collaborating with authors whose writing I enjoyed.
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snow
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I never thought of that way.
Thank you mary
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Mary Rosenblum
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That's the real benefit of
collaboration.
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Mary Rosenblum
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I collaborated with Jim
Sarafin, a lawyer and mystery writer. We ended up with a near future SF
that examined the nature of the legal system in the future.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Sounds dry, but it was
actually a really good novella. We actually ended up getting it republished
in a law magazine. That was cool.
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Mary Rosenblum
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He knew law and legal issues.
I did the near future stuff. It really came together.
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charie'
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Is a "shared universe"
anthology a type of collaboration?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Not in the sense that I've
been talking about, charie.
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Mary Rosenblum
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In some shared universe
series, such as Star Wars, it's tightly controlleld by the owner of the
universe and you simply obey specific rules.
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Mary Rosenblum
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That's more like a franchise.
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Mary Rosenblum
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But some, like the Wild Card series,
are a group effort Those authors do get together to argue out the next book
and what is going to happen to each person's character.
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charie'
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For example, each writer writes
a story from their MC's POV of a murder.
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Mary Rosenblum
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That would be a fun anthology,
Charie. A tickle at the back of my brain tells me it has been done before.
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snow
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would the new Lisa Jackson book
be more or what you are talking about?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Don't know, snow. Haven't read
it.
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geezer
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Sounds like improvisation in the
theater
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Mary Rosenblum
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There's probably a connection
there, geeze, in that you're taking your partner's contribution, fitting it
into the whole, and then springboarding off of that.
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wolf122
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How much does another have to
add in to be considereda collaborator? Examples: 1. A doctor proofs a novel
and makes a lot of technical changes; 2. Someone writing a solo chapter on
a main character's vivid dream; or 3. Writing 50% of the novel?
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Mary Rosenblum
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In the first case that's
simply critiquing. The doctor should get a nice thank you on the
acknowlegement page and a signed copy of the book.
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Mary Rosenblum
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I would be VERY leery of
letting anyone write a solo chapter in any book I was working on.
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Mary Rosenblum
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The potential legal
complications are scary.
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Mary Rosenblum
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If someone is writing fifty
percent of the novel I assume that person's name is on the cover and the
contract unless it is a 'ghost writing' contract and thus a work for hire.
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charie'
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What are the different
challenges between two collaborators versus a team of writers?
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Mary Rosenblum
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I'm not sure what you mean by
a team of writers, charie. If you mean as in screenplays, that's an
entirely different system of rights and obligations.
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Mary Rosenblum
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But let's talk about rights
for a moment.
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Mary Rosenblum
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If you write a work of fiction
with another writer....who owns those characters?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Who owns that universe?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Who gets the check?
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Mary Rosenblum
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You had better decide all of
that in writing ahead of time.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Jim of course is a lawyer, so
when we collaborated he drew up a very detailed contract that spelled out
our obligations and rights.
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Mary Rosenblum
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We split the money from the
novella.
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Mary Rosenblum
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I can't recall how we did the character
issue. I think we each had equal rights to use the characters in future
works.
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charie'
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(A team of writers equals more
than two writers on the same project.)
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Mary Rosenblum
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I have only seen that in
anthologies, charie.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Could happen, but mostly it's
two people working on something.
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geezer
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Can you give examples of
obligations and rights?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Well, when you and someone
write a novel together, say, who owns the copyright?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Both of you?
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Mary Rosenblum
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That means that both of you
have to sign every contract concerning that book.
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Mary Rosenblum
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If your partner dies...their
estate now owns half of your book.
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Mary Rosenblum
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If they decide they HATE it,
you won't be able to republish it ever.
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Mary Rosenblum
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What if you create a character
you love and want to use him in other stories and novels
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Mary Rosenblum
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but your partner (who is no
longer your friend) writes books and stories where this same character
turns into a child molester?
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snow
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how do collaborators get paid?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Both your names are on the
contract and you each get a check, usually.
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Mary Rosenblum
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BUT...
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Mary Rosenblum
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Especially if you are
collaborating on a novel, do write up a brief contract between you
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Mary Rosenblum
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defining the rights each of
you has.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Can you use those characters
elsewhere? Or is one character 'yours' and the other 'hers'?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Can you each use the universe
on your own?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Think about it.
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charie'
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So you get half the money you
would've gotten if you'd written the whole story?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Well yeah. Unless your
collaborator is happy to work for free, charie!
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Mary Rosenblum
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But you're going to put half
the writing hours into it, yes?
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charie'
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It seems like the same amount of
effort for a lot more hassle. : -)
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Mary Rosenblum
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Well, yeah, if you're just
looking at it from the bottom line standpoint, don't waste your time. :-)
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Mary Rosenblum
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But on the other hand, you can
often end up with something much more powerful when you combine with
someone.
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Mary Rosenblum
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It's more a matter of what you
think you'll get out of it.
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Mary Rosenblum
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I've done a lot of things
because I thought they would grow me as a writer even though I wasn't going
to make much money doing them.
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Mary Rosenblum
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The project I'm doing right
now I get nada for. Not one dime. But it was a GREAT creative challenge
it's going to net me some nice PR looks like.
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Mary Rosenblum
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So it's good for me as a
writer, even if not good for the bank account. :-)
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charie'
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Ideas shared usually end up with
bigger, better ideas, too.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Yes and writers don't think
alike. Your way of working through the plot isn't going to be your
partner's way. :-)
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rat of nimm
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Do you think it is better for a
writer to develop a solid sense of self and style before attempting to work
with another writer?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Not at all.
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Mary Rosenblum
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It's a great way to try new
things.
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Mary Rosenblum
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You have to meet your partner
halfway and he has to meet you halfway. Each of you will have to try new
things.
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Mary Rosenblum
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It's a great way to learn and
stretch.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Stretching is very important.
:-)
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Mary Rosenblum
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Finding a new way to stretch
is a good thing. Try new genres. Collaborate. Use different POVs or genders
for your MCs
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Mary Rosenblum
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try /ask sss...that's a good
question.
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charie'
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Once you've agreed on a plot, do
you write alone, then compare/share or go paragraph by paragraph writing
together?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Everybody does it differently.
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Mary Rosenblum
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I interviewed a husband/wife
team. They wrote together, one typing, the other suggesting, commenting,
paragraph by paragraph.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Jim and I swapped scenes.
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Mary Rosenblum
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He wrote one, sent it to me, I
edited, added my scene, sent it back, we argued over changes by email or
over the phone.
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snow
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Is there a right way and a wrong
way to collaborate?
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Mary Rosenblum
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The right way is fun for both
of you. The wrong way is someone hates doing it.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Or gets their feelings hurt.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Well, sss's question hasn't
made it up here, so I'll paraphrase;
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Mary Rosenblum
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It was, what if you have a
famous author and a not so famous author.
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Mary Rosenblum
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That can be a bit of an uneven
mix. I know how Anne McCaffery handles it because she talked about it.
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Mary Rosenblum
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She's really serving as
consultatant and editor and letting the novice write her story.
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sss1208
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if you have a famous author and
not so famous author do you still split 50/50
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Mary Rosenblum
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I think that depends entirely
on the pair, sss.
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Mary Rosenblum
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I don't know how Anne handles
the money side.
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Mary Rosenblum
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I suspect it's usually 50/50.
Your pro is contributing name recognition even if the novice is doing more
of the sweat equity.
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snow
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who gets the main credit for the
collaboration?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Well I guarantee you that the publisher
will put the pro's name first on the cover! LOL Always!
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Mary Rosenblum
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Their goal is to sell books
and they want fans of that author to buy it.
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geezer
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Hehe Who gets top billing?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Always the pro. :-) That name
is worth money.
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sss1208
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what about ghost writers, who
edits them? what do they do?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Ghost writing is work for
hire, sss.
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Mary Rosenblum
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You are getting paid a fee to
write this person's story, but that copyright belongs to the person who
hired you in that case.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Now that may not always be the
case.
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Mary Rosenblum
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You may also have writers who
tell someone who's recently famous, I'll write your story and we'll split
the money...
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Mary Rosenblum
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but you'd better do that as a
contract before you write word one.
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charie'
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Is it a collaboration when a
famous editor puts a "So & So Big Name Presents" then unknown
author's name in tiny print?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Depends on whether it is a collaboration,
charie. If all the Big Name did was write the intro, it's just a marketing
gimick and has nothing to do with anything else.
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Mary Rosenblum
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If you collaborate with
Stephen King I guarantee that his name will be twice the size of yours. :-)
A
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snow
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Thats a shame in my opinion
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Mary Rosenblum
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What snow? Ghost writing? Work
for hire?
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charie'
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King-sized compared to mine. ;
-)
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Mary Rosenblum
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LOL
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Mary Rosenblum
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I recommend collaboration as a
great way to stretch a bit as a writer.
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Mary Rosenblum
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But do make some rules with
your partner and put them in writing. Sign and date them and both keep a
copy.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Who gets to use the
characters? Who gets to use the universe? Can you use any part of the story
you're writing in another form?
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charie'
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If you want to collaborate with
a big name, how would you approach them?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Don't. :-)
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Mary Rosenblum
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Pros are not looking for
someone to collaborate with. We have enough ideas thanks. But sometimes a
pro will collaborate with a novice who is a friend
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Mary Rosenblum
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or maybe belongs to the same
writers group as a way to help that person out and because the pro thinks
the book or story will be good.
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andi
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the first time you try should it
be with someone you know?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Well, it's a good idea. I'
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Mary Rosenblum
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I"m not about to work
with someone I won't get along with.
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Mary Rosenblum
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I know some writers you
couldn't pay me to collaborate with , that's for sure! Ha.
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snow
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What if you've never met in
person? How do you get it all on paper?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Type it up and put it in the
mail. Email the agreement, the person prints it out, signs two copies sends
em to you
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Mary Rosenblum
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you sign both and send one
back.
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charie'
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So have great ideas, make great
conversation and hope they offer. : - )
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Mary Rosenblum
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That's about your best bet.
:-) Some writers collaborate quite a bit.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Frank Herbert collaborated
with several new writers who have gone on to become pros in their own
right.
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charie'
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Didn't Mercedes Lackey start out
with a lot of collaboration?
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Mary Rosenblum
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She may have. I can't
remember.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Margaret Weiss (dragon lance)
wrote a lot of those books with a partner.
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snow
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Would you say writing on your
own is better and safer than collaborating with some one? or the other way
around?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Well, better doesn't apply,
snow. It's simply different. It might be better because you learn new things,
or worse because it becomes a pain in the butt with a partner you don't
enjoy working with.
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Mary Rosenblum
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I walked away from one
collaboration when I got fed up.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Safer is only an issue if you
don't think about rights later on.
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charie'
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Do you have to beware of clauses
in the contract saying you MUST finish the project?
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snow
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So you can leave the partnership
at anytime then?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Yes, charie. I would be
cautious of that. And of course snow. Your partner might be royally pissed,
but it's up to you.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Remember if you don't sign a
contract you are not obligated.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Mostly I would make an
agreement about who gets to use the characters and who gets to use the
universe.
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Mary Rosenblum
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In my agreements it has always
been 'we both get all characters and we both get the universe'.
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Mary Rosenblum
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After all, we created 'em
together. I figure we get to share 'em equally
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Mary Rosenblum
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That would NOT be true if we
were using a universe I had created previously.
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charie'
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Is there any way to insure that
the 'spirit' of the characters and universe remain in the same vein?
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Mary Rosenblum
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YOu can try and spell that
out, charie, but if you care that much, I wouldn't collaborate in that
universe.
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sss1208
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do you get ticked off if your
partner is dragging his/her feet? would that make you walk off
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Mary Rosenblum
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There are a lot of ways to get
mad at each other things. It's like a marriage! You hate the way he snores,
he hates the way you scrape your fork tines on the plate.
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geezer
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It does sound like a marriage.
If there is a divorce must decide who gets the kids.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Exactly.
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Mary Rosenblum
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I walked on a novel
collaboration. It was about 3/4 done. I gave my partner all rights to it.
Didn't want the hassle.
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charie'
|
So your favorite character
doesn't become a child molester in the ex-collaborator's hands.
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Mary Rosenblum
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I wouldn't give anyone rights
to use my favorite character. :-)
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Mary Rosenblum
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Well, that's not true. :-) I
did give a game developer rights to use my Drylands characters in a game.
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Mary Rosenblum
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That didn't bother me. :-)
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Mary Rosenblum
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Well, do give collaboration a
try. It's fun. Just pick someone you get along with, whose writing is sort
of similar to yours.
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snow
|
Would you ever fight (legally)
for a character?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Sure. All of us would. SFWA
leans on people legally for abusing member copyright all the time.
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Mary Rosenblum
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S'partly why we pay our dues.
:-)
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Mary Rosenblum
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I'll post the transcript of
this in the usual place...Writing Craft, Forum Transcript.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Drop in Sunday evening for our
casual chat.
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Mary Rosenblum
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it's a lot of fun. I really
look forward to it every week.
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Mary Rosenblum
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See you all then!
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