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Mary Rosenblum
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Good morning all.
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Mary Rosenblum
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I hope you've had a good
weekend and that your winter weather isn't too grim today.
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Mary Rosenblum
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The days are getting longer at
least!
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Mary Rosenblum
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The internet is rapidly
becoming How We Do Things so I wanted to talk about the publishing on the
internet.
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Mary Rosenblum
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It's both a powerful tool and
problmeatic at the same time, depending on your goals as a writer.
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Mary Rosenblum
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The internet represents a huge
pool of potential readers....for your blog or anything else you write.
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Mary Rosenblum
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But the internet is also a
vast public space and material posted on it is hard to control. So you have
to decide how much control you want to have over your words before you post
those words on your blog or website or other public forum.
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sss1208
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how long should we wait to email
an editor after submission, one that has a reputation of waiting a year
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Mary Rosenblum
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Well, sss, my rule of thumb is
about fifty percent of the guideline response time over....which would make
it a year and a half.
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Mary Rosenblum
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That is a LONG time to wait,
even if this is a novel.
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Mary Rosenblum
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I'm not sure I'd want to leave
something of mine in limbo that long if I had other, equally good markets
available.
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writingwolfaert
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how respected are online credits
when submitting to paper publications?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Not very, unless they are well
known.
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Mary Rosenblum
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shooter, I saw your question
but can't include it in the transcript unless you use /ask in front of it.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Do send it to me, okay? It's a
good one.
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Mary Rosenblum
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The problem, wolf, is that
every day, a dozen new hopeful 'editors' start an ezine.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Most of them are not very good
writers/editors and most of the stuff they publish is pretty poor. They do
it because they want to, they usually believe in what they're doing, but
the quality is not high.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Now some ezines ARE well
respected.
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Mary Rosenblum
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If you publish in Wired
woohoo. That's a top drawer clip.
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Mary Rosenblum
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If you publish for National
Geographic Online, same thing.
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Mary Rosenblum
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But if you publish in a small
for-no-money ezine, it's not likely that the editor has heard or it or
cares much.
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Mary Rosenblum
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I would still USE that clip,
but i would also include a link to the published story in the hopes that
the editor will go look at it.
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writingwolfaert
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so how do you sort out the good
from the useless?
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Mary Rosenblum
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The good ones usually pay, and
if they don't pay, their issues will most likely be reviewed by the
reviewers who cover that genre.
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Mary Rosenblum
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If you find no mention of them
other than their own PR, they're probably not well regarded.
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Mary Rosenblum
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The flash fiction market that
I posted in the last issue of the newsletter pays, for example, and is
accepted as a professional market by SFWA (Science Fiction Writers of
America).
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Mary Rosenblum
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Work from that ezine may well
be reviewed by SF reviewers and a clip from it will count if youi mention
it to an editor in the SF/fantasy genre.
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str8shooter
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I have short stories on a
writing web site considered "published" How do I legally remove
them?
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Mary Rosenblum
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This is an excellent question,
shooter, and a key point I want to make today.
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Mary Rosenblum
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It depends on your contract.
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Mary Rosenblum
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If you don't have a contract,
and many new ezines don't offer one, then you don't have a legal lever to
use here.
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Mary Rosenblum
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You have allowed this person
to use your story and you have set no limits on how that person may use it.
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Mary Rosenblum
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You can ask to have it removed
and if they say 'sorry' Oh well.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Many many ezines include the
right to archive work indefinitely on the site.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Now that's not usually a big
issue. You have parted with your first rights, so any small 'zine or
anthology that wants to buy second rights from you
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Mary Rosenblum
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is probably not going to be
too concerned about an archived copy here or there.
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Mary Rosenblum
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BUt it does mean you cannot
legally offer 'exclusive' second rights.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Exclusive means that only this
copy of the story is published right now, even though it was published in
the past.
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heal
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What do you do if after the
deadline passed and you sent note saying did you get it and you still don't
hear?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Well, heal, if you have
another market in mind and yoiu're tired of waiting for this editor, send a
polite letter saying that you have another market in mind and you're
withdrawing this story from his/her consideration.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Then send it elsewhere.
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heal
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Are places like Helium and Suite
101 a good place to start?
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Mary Rosenblum
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I'm not personally familiar
with Suite 101 but I did register on the Helium site to see what it is.
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Mary Rosenblum
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I don't see anything wrong
with it as long as you realize what you're doing. It's a nice way to get
some writing practice with immediate peer feedback
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Mary Rosenblum
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and you can win points if your
work is popular. I don't see anything particularly wrong with it as long as
you realize it's not a direct route to
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Mary Rosenblum
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a professional career.
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Mary Rosenblum
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They are mostly an advertising
site. :-)
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Mary Rosenblum
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But if you have trouble
getting motivated, you can find excellent motivation to write on the site.
They'll even nag you.
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heal
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If you are published on an ezene
for no money can you submit
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Mary Rosenblum
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I'm assuming you meant to ask
'can you submit elsewhere'? Well, you can offer second rights, heal.
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Mary Rosenblum
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But published is published,
whether you get a check or not.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Once it's published you have
spent your first rights. You can NEVER offer them again.
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speckledorf
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Str8shooter mentioned
writing.com. I checked thier fine print and a member can delete their
acocunt and the content will be deleted. However, the work is still out
there in cyber-land as cached pages.
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Mary Rosenblum
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This is the catch with
internet publishing.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Material circulates in
cyberspace for years!
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Mary Rosenblum
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Say you publish your novel on
your website. You realize uh oh, this is not a good thing to do. So you
quickly take it down.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Now you submit your novel to a
publisher. That publisher, not being stupid, googles the title and your
name.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Ohmygosh, three to twenty
copies of it pop up. It has been copied and posted on websites you know
nothing about and now it's out there in cyberspace for free.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Guess how likley that
publisher is to pay you for this book?
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Mary Rosenblum
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It is VERY difficulit to
remove all copies of anything from that vast sea that is now the internet.
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zave
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but if you're looking for a
critique for your work, and the only way to get access to the site where
you get the critique is password protected, then does that mean your rights
are safe?
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Mary Rosenblum
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You bet.
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Mary Rosenblum
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As long as the site is not
open to anybody, then it is not considered a public forum.
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Mary Rosenblum
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So Storycrafters is fine, for
example.
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Mary Rosenblum
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But I had a young fan who has
been publishing her novel on her website. When I realized that, I had a
quick chat with her. She had no idea that she would compromise the rights
to the book that way.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Now you can publish part of
your book online.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Hey, if you post your first
three chapters on your website and show a huge hit record to the editor,
that might carry some weight when she/he considers the manuscirpt.
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Mary Rosenblum
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(although hits are very easy
to manipulate and everybody knows it).
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Mary Rosenblum
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But don't put the whole mss up
there!
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sss1208
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suppose you email a ms, and a
copy on cd format, and it is rejected before publishing, are you safe to
present again?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Sure -- to another publisher.
The work is not published until it is available to the public.
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str8shooter
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The site offers pass keys...for
a small fee. That would work
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Mary Rosenblum
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As long as a site is not open
to the drop in casual browser, you should be fine shooter.
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ginas
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Helium is a paying site,
although they don't pay much...I try not to put anything there that I want
to sell
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Mary Rosenblum
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They do pay. And it's a nice
place to get practice and feedback since you get peer review. But it's very
self contained. What it really is is a space for paying advertisers to
advertise to novice writers. :-) In case you hadn't figured that out yet.
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acook
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does it matter if the story that
has been published on a site like writing.com has been revised completely.
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Mary Rosenblum
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If it's very differrent than
the original story, you're fine acook. This is a blurry boundary, but
pretty much if the story is recognizable as the same
plot/character/dramatic arc, then it's not going to be considered
'different'.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Revision doesn't restore first
rights. :-)
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rae
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I have submitted several short
stories to Ellery Queen Magazine and been rejected. Shoul I rework them and
resubmit to them, or just sent them elsewhere?
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Mary Rosenblum
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EQ will not look at a
resubmission unless Janet asks for one. She's very clear if she does that.
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Mary Rosenblum
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I would send them out
elsewhere. If an editor thinks you can change the story and make it
saleable, don't worry, that editor will tell you
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Mary Rosenblum
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and will tell you what he/she
wants to see changed.
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Mary Rosenblum
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You might beyt a note like
'the ending didn't work for me' or 'I couldn't believe her motivation
here'.
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Mary Rosenblum
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If you can fix that, then send
it back, tell the editor 'thank you for your helpful comments, I made her
motivation more believeble this time. See what you think.
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Mary Rosenblum
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You still might not sell it,
but the editor will remember that you tried to work with him/her.
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rae
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So you are saying I should put
my first three chapters on a public website?
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Mary Rosenblum
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You don't have to, but some
writers I know feel it has helped their sales when the story/book was
published.
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Mary Rosenblum
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One thing that WILL help you.
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Mary Rosenblum
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If you post a segment of your
novel online and it gets mentioned by respected bloggers or reviewers in
the genre, that will get you noticed.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Editors do read specific
reviewers and some inside bloggers to keep an eye out for 'hot new
writers'.
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Mary Rosenblum
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If Cory Doctorow mentions you
on his blog, you're going to make the SF/fantasy editors prick up their
ears.
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Mary Rosenblum
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(Boing Boing)
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rae
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If you have a short story and
turn it into a long novel, can you sell it as first rights even thought the
short is contained in the body of the novel?
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Mary Rosenblum
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OH yeah. Let's see....two of
my SF novels include a complete short story that was first published in
Asimov's.
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Mary Rosenblum
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The main issue with the
intenet is that because it IS such a huge ocean now, it is very easy to be
as unnoticed there as a drop of water in that real, salty ocean.
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Mary Rosenblum
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And you have meanwhile
squandered your first rights.
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Mary Rosenblum
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It may be fine to squander
those rights if it gets you some serious attention.
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Mary Rosenblum
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But if you just post your work
up there on some tiny ezine and your intention is to get published with the
big traditional publishers
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Mary Rosenblum
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you're fooling yourself.
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Mary Rosenblum
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We don't have a lot of review
and recommended-book-sites that draw in huge numbers of buying readers yet.
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Mary Rosenblum
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That will happen, but right
now, most people select their reading from what is offered in the front of
the chain bookstores.
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acook
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what is the storycrafters web
address
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Mary Rosenblum
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Speck?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Send it up here, will you, so
that it'll be in the transcript?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Do realize too that a host of
predators exist who prey on the naivete of new writers, who don't really
know how the publishing world works
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Mary Rosenblum
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and are willing to beleive
someone who sounds like an expert.
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Mary Rosenblum
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So always check any
publisher,agent, editor with Preditors and Editors
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Mary Rosenblum
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http://www.anotherealm.com/prededitors/
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speckledorf
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www.storycrafters.net Then click
on the "forum" link.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Not all people who offer you
the earth and sky are scam artists. :-) Some are simply idealists who
haven't run head on into hard reality yet.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Now one thing you can do.
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Mary Rosenblum
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If you have fiction or
nonfiction that you have tried to sell and haven't. Or you have already
published it and so you no longer can offer first rights, go ahead and put
that up on your website.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Name recognition is good.
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Mary Rosenblum
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You can always invite comments
from readers.
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Mary Rosenblum
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That's a good way to get
reader feedback.
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Mary Rosenblum
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If you haven't sold the story,
yes, you are sacrificing first rights, but if you improve your writing
because of the comments you get, maybe it's a worthwhile trade.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Just do this sort of thing
knowing what the tradeoff is.
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Mary Rosenblum
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And always examine your own
goals. There is nothing wrong with publishing with a small, for-no-pay
ezine if you can't sell to a paying market.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Why not? Better up there where
some people read it and remember you than in your file cabinet or on your
hard drive, eh?
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Mary Rosenblum
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it's not an issue of 'never do
this or never do that' it's all about do this or that but understand what
you are doing.
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str8shooter
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Is entering publisher house
contests helpful, or a scam?
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Mary Rosenblum
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You mean like Writers Digest
contests? Oh, it won't hurt you, but it won't help you a lot either. The WD
contests are nice wins because it's so big and well known. The Writers of
the Future contest in SF/fantasy is also a nice win because it's big. And
it pays VERY well.
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Mary Rosenblum
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But ultimately contests are
contests and the judges pick what they like. It doesn't mean you can write
well for a commecial magazine and editors know it.
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Mary Rosenblum
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So it's a plus but not a
golden pass key by any means!
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Mary Rosenblum
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Of course, if the contest
publishes your winning story, they are using your first rights.
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Mary Rosenblum
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But if it's a big contest,
that's fine.
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Mary Rosenblum
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You're getting the PR from it.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Now some publishing
houses...small press ones...
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Mary Rosenblum
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use contests to scam writers.
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Mary Rosenblum
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MWA lowered the boom on Oak
Tree Press a few years back.
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Mary Rosenblum
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They ran a novel contest with
the promise to publish the winner.
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Mary Rosenblum
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But then they got the 'winner'
to pay all kinds of fees....several thousand bucks in all, as I recall.
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Mary Rosenblum
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THAT was a scam not a contest.
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Mary Rosenblum
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(MWA....Mystery Writers of
America).
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Mary Rosenblum
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So read the fine print and
remember....money flows TO the writer FROM the publisher.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Tattoo that on your foreheads!
The scammers will have lots of good explanations about how that is 'the old
days' and 'publishing is different now'.
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Mary Rosenblum
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That part ain't different!
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gskearney
|
Contests do have fees though.
What's too much??
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Mary Rosenblum
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That's sticky. Usually the
fees fund the winners' prizes, and of course, for some 'contests' they fund
the contest hosts.
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Mary Rosenblum
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If a cash prize and
publication is awarded, yeah, a fee makes sense. They're not likely to sell
a lot of copies of the book beyond the contest winners and their families
unless it's a hugely respected contest
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Mary Rosenblum
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like the Pushcart or
Pullitzer.
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Mary Rosenblum
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You can check contests on
Preditors and Editors, too.
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Mary Rosenblum
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They do NOT like fee contests.
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Mary Rosenblum
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But while they'll
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Mary Rosenblum
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not recommend a fee contest,
they are also quite clear when a contest is a scam.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Not all fee contests are
scams.
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Mary Rosenblum
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I love the current 'win a
house' contest posted by Housewife Mafia.
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Mary Rosenblum
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It's a legitimate attempt on
the part of the house owners to sell their house in a novel way. The fee is
a hundred bucks.
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Mary Rosenblum
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it's a really nice property
and if I wanted to move there, I'd enter it in a heartbeat and take a
gamble. :-)
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str8shooter
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Or the contests listed in
Writer's Market Book.
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Mary Rosenblum
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The contests in Writers Market
should be good, but check Preditors anyway.
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Mary Rosenblum
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That publisher I mentioned was
considered to be legit until her cute little 'fee' thing came to light.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Those print market indexes
only get updated once a year.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Any last minute questions
before we run out of time?
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rae
|
writer's market is now online at
writersmarket.com The fee is per month
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Mary Rosenblum
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They are. And to be honest, I
would subscribe to a reputable online service before I'd buy a print
copy...BUT...
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Mary Rosenblum
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Writers Market is VERY
general. You can find many more specific online market indexes...both free
and for a fee...that will cover
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Mary Rosenblum
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your areas of interest more
specifically.
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Mary Rosenblum
|
If you write mostly in a
particular arena...NF, or mystery, or romance or what have you...check for
indexes that target those markets more thoroughly.
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Mary Rosenblum
|
If you are writing
sf/fantasy/horror, go to www.ralan.com.
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Mary Rosenblum
|
And for heaven's sake donate
some money to the guy. He's doing this EXCELLENT market list on his own
dime.
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zave
|
it's all right to want to start
small like with a no-pay e-zine and gradually work your way up towards
bigger publishing houses, isn't it?
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Mary Rosenblum
|
That's the way most people do
it, zave. But TRY your stories with the big publishers first and then move
DOWN the list.
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heal
|
just how do second rites work
and how do you approach it
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Mary Rosenblum
|
Well some markets (like the LR
website) accept reprints. (also called previously published work).
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Mary Rosenblum
|
Mostly, editors ask you. I get
requests to republish my fiction in a ton of small magazines, a lot of them
foreign.
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Mary Rosenblum
|
Well, this was an interesting
forum. I hope some of what I had to say helped you.
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|
Mary Rosenblum
|
Remember...while the internet
has tremendous potential it's not fully realized yet in terms of
publishing.
|
|
Mary Rosenblum
|
So keep your goals in mind and
be aware of what you are doing if you publish there.
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|
Mary Rosenblum
|
Have a good week and I'll see
you Sunday at our casual chat!
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Mary Rosenblum
|
Maybe I'll have more lambs by
then. Write well!
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