Friday After Hours Forum

Writing Mystery

March 20, 2009

 

Mary Rosenblum: Mystery is one of the biggest genres. Not as large as romance, but a close second.  It is more of a formulaic genre than is mainstream or SF...but is not as rigidly formulaic as romance. So one of the realities of the novel market is that you need to suit one of the sub genres. If you 'fall between the cracks' of two distinct subgenres, your novels may be seen as 'unmarketable' by many editors at the large publishing houses.
 The main ones are 'hard boiled' (think Sam Spade, Phillip Marlow, and the like),
Amateur Sleuth
Police Procedural (which includes the now popular CSI type books)
Cozy
You have PI as well... these are the Private Eyes who aren't quite as tough as the 'hard boiled' characters, but the two sort of blend together.
Like my "Sydney?"
Mary Rosenblum: Yeah, Dani.  
Can you define a cozy?
Mary Rosenblum: Character is paramount in mystery. While the plot is, of course, primary, mystery readers want REAL characters more than in any other genre. As to cozy, that is a genre that takes place in a single locale. Think the 'Murder She Wrote' TV Series or Agatha Christie's Miss Marple books.  No on-stage sex and violence, although off-stage is fine. The killer needs to be local, not someone from outside. It tends to cross over strongly into the romance readership, but cozies rarely win the big awards.
Would you consider Diane Mott Davidson's series a cozy or amateur sleuth?
Mary Rosenblum: I don't know, Claryce. I haven't read it.
So cozy is like laid back reading?
Mary Rosenblum: If the series takes place in a single or related locale and the violence is low key, yes, it's probably a cozy.

Caterer in Colorado, solves crime no violence and some romance
Mary Rosenblum: That's cozy, Claryce.  It's usually an amateur sleuth with a friend who is a policeman, sheriff's deputy, what have you.
Thanks, Mary
Mary Rosenblum: The  amateur sleuth mysteries tend to use a LOT more violence.  This has been a growing trend over the past decade or so. Generally, someone gets hurt very badly, usually in graphic detail.
Her husband is the local sheriff
Is it pronounced cozy, as in warm and fuzzy?
Mary Rosenblum: Yep, meaning warm and fuzzy. It's not a mystery that's going to turn your stomach or leave you feeling uneasy, as someone like Vachs' mysteries might do.
How does a writer know if they have a novel in them? I don't know if I'd be able to write 70k+ words about the same crime and some other minor plots.
What is driving the trend toward more violence? Reader preference?
Mary Rosenblum: Dale, anything you see in the marketplace is driven by sales.  If readers don't buy it, you won't see it.  Nevada Barr writes a very well respected amateur sleuth series. Her character and others get pretty damaged in every book.
Would you consider the suspense novel/thriller a genre of mystery?
Mary Rosenblum: It is and it isn't, mermaid.  Suspense novels have one foot in mystery and one in thriller, which is a very separate genre.  The difference is this: In mystery, we do not know the killer until the 'drawing-room scene'...that is, the scene where the sleuth realizes/reveals the killer. In suspense and thriller, we know who the bad guy is.
Would Sue Grafton's 'Kinsey Millhone' alphabet mysteries be classified as PI or Hard-Boiled?
Mary Rosenblum: That's PI Gail. Kinsey isn't nearly hard enough for hard boiled.
No, I didn't think so, but it is written in the strong 1st POV like most Hard-Boiled seem to be.

Mary Rosenblum: Most detective fiction is first person, Gail. It's the voice that makes it hard boiled.
I've read that a mystery is where something bad has already happened and thriller is spent trying to keep the bad thing from happening.
Mary Rosenblum: Well put! The tension in suspense/thriller is developed by the 'ticking clock' as the good guys try to figure out how to stop the bad guy and the bad guy tries to do whatever he's going to do.
You were saying mystery is to a formula, what is the formula?
Mary Rosenblum: Pearl, by formula, I mean that mystery has some rules that you need to pay attention to.  Readers don't want to know who the killer is in mystery. They want to try and figure it out before the author reveals it.  A cozy needs to fall within the 'rules' of cozy, in terms of perp and location.
The element of surprise is the greatest attraction for me
Mary Rosenblum: In suspense, it's the race between good and bad that powers the novel rather than the puzzle of 'whodunnit'.  And character isn't as important in suspense or thriller as it is in mystery. Generally, a mystery involves a single main character.  Often it's first person, especially in PI fiction.  That's a holdover from the original hard boileds. In suspense/thriller you tend to have a larger cast of vividly drawn characters who aren't a deeply drawn as in the mystery novel.
Are you saying suspense-thriller are a different genre than mystery.
Mary Rosenblum: Yes, bss.  Quite. They are generally published in different imprints and marketed quite differently.
Is the line between these sometimes hazy?
Mary Rosenblum: Pearl, the line between all genres is hazy.
Explain vividly vs, deeply drawn, please Mary.
Mary Rosenblum: Claryce, a vivid character reveals his/her character strongly and that character's actions are consistent. But we don't really know the person well enough to identify with them strongly. They are more involved with action, less introspective.  Deeply drawn, we get a much stronger sense of the character's motivations, personality. It's easier to identify strongly with that character as a real person. Both are strongly created characters. In a short, short story for example, your character is going to be vividly portrayed, but you don't have the time to develop that character deeply...you reveal him/her vividly instead.
Would you say that suspense characters are often more "archetypical" then mystery characters, who can be more individuated (i.e. deeply drawn?)?
Mary Rosenblum: They can be that way, Dale, but that's often the hallmark of a mediocre thriller. Silence of the Lambs is a thriller, but part of the reason it did as well as it did was that the characters were very realistic and vivid. And quite unique.
I've certainly read a few mediocre thrillers in my time,
Mary Rosenblum: Alas, it's easy to let action and excitement substitute for quality writing.
I've read a lot of predictable thrillers and mysteries.
Mary Rosenblum: Yeap. So your task as a writer is to write the kind of thriller or mystery that YOU would want to read, eh?
somewhere in my past I remember an author (name unknown) who had a formula for writing his mysteries which he kept on a large easel. I wish I had written down said formula. Mary, do you know a specific formula?
Mary Rosenblum: Formula bites you in the butt, GC. You can find books that will offer you all kinds of formulae for fiction. And you know what?  Readers figure out your formula pretty quickly. Mystery is also a series genre.  A publisher really does prefer a series to a stand alone mystery. The readership wants series.
Do they have to be series?
Mary Rosenblum: They don't, Pearl, but it's harder to sell a stand alone.

How do you keep the suspense in the whodunit mystery?
Mary Rosenblum: Good question, Sami.  You do it by keeping the readers guessing about who the killer is and by creating some kind of ticking clock. An innocent person will go to jail, often a friend of the sleuth. Or the killer may strike again.
which sells best, suspense thrillers (serial killers, FBI profilers, ) or mystery?
Mary Rosenblum:  Thriller often outsells mystery since it appeals to the mainstream readership as well as mystery/thriller readers. Think 'Hunt for Red October'.
I have a kidnapped child as the ticking clock and the need to find her.
Mary Rosenblum: You have a perfectly good ticking clock, Sami.
Is it best, then, to know ahead that you have more stories on tap for your main character before you even start trying to pitch your first one?
Mary Rosenblum:  It will help you sell the book, Pearl.
I notice it in my job, too. Books like "The Alienist" and "A Conspiracy of Paper" reach a wider readership.
Mary Rosenblum:  Yes, Dale. Actually, Alienist is barely in the mystery genre and really was marketed as a mainstream book. Mystery plots work in all genres. I use mystery plots in my SF  all the time.
And our cataloging reflects that.
Mary Rosenblum:  Remember that one unwritten rule of mystery is that you need to put the clues in the story so that once the readers know who did it, at the end, they'll see that they COULD have figured it out.  Only you, of course, have kept them from noticing those clues.  That's where the real work in mystery comes in.  Hiding clues in plain sight.
That's where I am stymied.
I hope that I have done that
Mary Rosenblum:  Generally, you misdirect readers by making an innocent character look guilty.  Where some novice writers have trouble with mystery is that they have the sleuth immediately suspects the real bad guy and start investigating him. And he did it! Ho hum. No puzzle there!
Mystery Writers Handbook. Lawrence Treat. Any good???
Mary Rosenblum:  Is that a MWA publication, Granndad?  They do a handbook from time to time and it's excellent. I don't tend to read how to write books unless I’m reviewing ''em for students.
I’m guessing making an innocent character seem guilty with out being too obvious is a fine art....a balancing act.
Mary Rosenblum:  It sure is, Claryce! Mystery writers know the 'rules' and they're VERY sharp.  You have to work to fool 'em! You know what I do?  I give my draft to a very sharp mystery reader...not a writer...and find out if she guessed whodunnit before the end.
What about making the guilty seem innocent? Will that backfire?
Mary Rosenblum:  You CAN shoot yourself in the foot if you're not careful.  If your readers like the bad guy better than your good guys you are walking a VERY fine line.

Mary do you find a detailed outline a necessity before beginning to write a mystery?
Mary Rosenblum:  I do, dale. Much more so than with my SF/fantasy and mainstream fiction. It's much more structured and you have a complex balance of red herrings, clues, action, and character subplots.
I have always thought they would be harder to keep track of
Mary Rosenblum:  They are. And when you add pacing -- you want that mystery to move forward briskly -- it's like juggling five balls rather than three. You have to keep the prgression of clues in your mind, so that the readers are nudged along in the 'misdirection' you want them to go.  Claryce, if they're your favorite read, you'll likely do them better than anything else. I do find that I plant many of my clues after the first draft.  I'll have several main red herrings in hand when I start, but often, the clues that I want the readers to spot only AFTER the end of the book, I'll slip in later on.  Mystery readers, as I said, are sharp. You have to hide those clues carefully in plain sight.  That's usually too distracting when I'm pounding through the first draft.  At least that's how I work. There is no one way to write anything.
I agree Mary. I came up with additional clues later in the story, then had to go back to the earlier chapters and set them up. Mary Rosenblum:  The way to plant clues effectively is to have something else much more dramatically powerful in the scene. That way, reader attention is focused on that dramatic peak and they miss the clue.
How does one choose to use first person over third person?
Mary Rosenblum:  As to first or third, Bill, it's the same for any fiction. Which one will work better.  Generally, third person allows you to include more action and visual details. First person allows you to feed information to the readers through your narrator. If your main character is going to be alone a lot, use first person.  Beats pages of internal narrative! If you're going to have a lot of action and dialogue, third is likely to work better for you.
Mary, can you give us a simple example of hiding a clue in a dramatically powerful scene?
Mary Rosenblum:  Sure, Claryce.  I had a scene in one of my mysteries where my sleuth was talking to the guy who was the killer, only of course, nobody knows this yet. He needed to say something that she'll recall later that guides her to her revelation that he did it.  But I don't want readers to know that this comment is important.  So I had her anticipating trouble, tense and watching for it. She barely pays attention to his comments.  And the readers are anticipating trouble and they're not paying attention either, because her behavior signals that they're not important.
  Right, I get it....the old switch and bait.
  Very much like slight of hand
Mary Rosenblum:  More like sleight of hand....nothing up my sleeve...
Sleight of scene.
Mary Rosenblum:  While you're watching the bar fight, the real killer is quietly hiding the gun under the bar to incriminate the barkeep.  And that clue is there...he leaves the fight, comes in later.
Would you give the murderer a legitimate reason to want to not be involved in the fight? So that the reader misinterprets his actions?
Mary Rosenblum:  Of course. Remember those sharp mystery readers.  He ‘had to use the john’.  Or something.
So Mary, this misdirection you're discussing is pretty central to the art and craft of writing mystery isn't it?
Mary Rosenblum:   It is, Dale. That's one of the big draws of mystery.  It's a game...can I figure it out before the author tells me?  That's what I enjoy about writing it...that little race. And I love it when I really get fooled.
Do we need to see the killer before they are revealed at the end?  or is just the mention of them okay
Mary Rosenblum:  Yes, sami. That person needs to be around at least. They don't have to be on stage as long as we know they exist.
my killer/kidnapper is mentioned a few times, but never seen
Mary Rosenblum:   That should be fine.
good, I think I have that covered.
I've heard the gaming comparison before but clearly it's even more central then I realized. I admit to being more into empathizing with the sleuth but the game aspect of figuring out "whodunit" is quite entertaining.
Mary Rosenblum:   It's big for a lot of mystery readers. Most, I'd say. The readers want a fair chance to 'beat you' and figure it out.  If you plant NO clues, it's not a fair game.
So the bad guy doesn't get caught, just thwarted?
Mary Rosenblum:   Generally he gets caught or killed, Charie, but he can carry over to later books.
It's a tight rope the mystery writer walks--they need to give the reader a chance to figure it out but not too easy a chance?
Mary Rosenblum:   That's it, Dale. Much of the brain sweat in mystery is hiding those clues in plain sight and hiding them WELL. 

See you all Sunday at our casual chat! Same time, same place...well, the lounge. Night all!