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Mary Rosenblum
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Hello all!
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Mary Rosenblum
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I hope you're looking forward
to the long weekend!
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Mary Rosenblum
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This is our After Hours Forum,
with me, Mary Rosenblum, your web editor and we're talking about mysteries.
I've published eight novels, more than 60 short stories, and will do my
best to answer any questions you have. If you're new here, remember that
you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next
to the red question mark at the top of the screen in order to ask a
question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! Or you can use /ask and
type your question into the regular send bar if that works better for you..
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Mary Rosenblum
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I figured I'd talk about
writing mysteries tonight, since quite a few of my novel students are
writing mysteries
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Mary Rosenblum
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and mystery always makes a
good plot, no matter what genre you write in.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Most of my SF plots are, in
effect, mysteries. As reviewers like to point out.
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tory
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What differentiates mystery from
suspense?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Not much.
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Mary Rosenblum
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That's one of those subtle
subgenre divisions. One bookstore will shelve the title with mystery and
another will shelve it as suspense.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Not all suspense involves a
mystery.
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Mary Rosenblum
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It can involve a 'race to fix
something'.
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Mary Rosenblum
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A mystery is more about
finding out whodunnit.
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Mary Rosenblum
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But they overlap a lot. A
mystery with a lot of action, violence, and a fast pace will probably be
marketed as suspense
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Mary Rosenblum
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while something with more
focus on the characters will be called mystery.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Mystery is very much a
character driven genre.
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charie'
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or "How do we catch
them?" like Columbo
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Mary Rosenblum
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Exactly.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Often in suspense you know who
the perp is and it's a matter of watching the cat and mouse game set
against a ticking clock.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Actually the SF novel that
follows the one I'm currently finishing will have a suspense form.
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chocolatediva
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What makes a book suspense?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Mostly the sense of that
ticking clock.
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Mary Rosenblum
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It's a race to stop something
from happening, find someone before something terrible happens, that sort
of thing.
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Mary Rosenblum
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They tend to involve more
action and violence, more characters, and the books tend to be more plot
driven, less character driven.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Gross generalizations, you
understand, and the genres overlap.
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xana
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Unlike P D James whose clocks
tick very slowly
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Mary Rosenblum
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Exactly. She is very much a
character writer who keeps the focus tight on the people and their
interactions.
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fiction_scribe
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like 24 on TV or Tom Clancy's
novels?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Tom Clancy is suspence, also
called thriller.
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kolanda
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I have never been able to write
mystery what would help me
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Mary Rosenblum
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Do you read mysteries,
kolanda?
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Mary Rosenblum
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This is our After Hours Forum,
with me, Mary Rosenblum, your web editor and we're talking about mysteries.
I've published eight novels, more than 60 short stories, and will do my
best to answer any questions you have. If you're new here, remember that
you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next
to the red question mark at the top of the screen in order to ask a
question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! Or you can use /ask and
type your question into the regular send bar if that works better for you..
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Mary Rosenblum
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The reason I asked is that if
you don't read mystery at all, it is difficult to write.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Otherwise, it's not hard to do
and lots of fun.
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kolanda
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difficult to write at all or
just write mystery?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Difficult to write mystery,
kolanda.
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Mary Rosenblum
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It is very difficult for a
novice writer to write well in a genre you don't read.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Even when you aren't
consciously aware of your techniques, you know what 'sounds right' in a
genre you read regularly.
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chocolatediva
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What exactly are the elements
needed for mystery writing?
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Mary Rosenblum
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A crime...usually murder. The
person who committed it. The person who is trying to solve the crime.
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charie'
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As the author, you know all
about the mystery. How do you decide which clues to leave, and at what
pace?
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Mary Rosenblum
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That's where practice comes
in, charie.
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Mary Rosenblum
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You need to leave enough clues
that when you reveal the 'perp' the readers slap their foreheads and go
'oh, yeah!'.
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Mary Rosenblum
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But mystery readers really
want you to make it hard for them to guess the perp. They don't mind if
they don't figure it out before you reveal it.
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Mary Rosenblum
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They DO mind if they know
whodunnit in chapter three!
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Mary Rosenblum
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So you learn the art of
distraction.
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Mary Rosenblum
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It's a good idea to give your manuscript
to a mystery reader friend and find out whether they figure things out well
before the end or not.
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Mary Rosenblum
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The more you write it, the
better you'll get at hiding clues in plain sight with a bit of verbal
'sleight of hand'.
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labtekki
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Do you start with crime and work
backwrds?
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Mary Rosenblum
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That's a good way to do it,
and it's how I normally start, labtek.
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Mary Rosenblum
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It's also a good idea to
figure out who gets to be a red herring.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Create a character who has
good reason to have killed off the victim. Give the readers someone to
suspect!
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xana
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It helps if all te suspects have
motives
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Mary Rosenblum
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Certainly more than one
character should have a motive to have killed the victim.
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fiction_scribe
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what crimes other than murder
work well in mysteries?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Most of the time it's murder
because the stakes are so high.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Andrew Vachs writes some
really potent mysteries where the crime is often child abuse.
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Mary Rosenblum
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I actually put a lot of my
clues in on my second draft.
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nyy
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I love mysteries and read
everyone from Lee Harris to James Patterson, and still can't think of my
own plot, characters, etc!
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Mary Rosenblum
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You're probably trying too
hard, nyy.
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Mary Rosenblum
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It's not about the GREAT IDEA
in mystery. Start with any crime.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Murder is just fine.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Decide who's going to investigate.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Now decide why this person is
involved.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Now start thinking about a
reason for the murder that won't be obvious...
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Mary Rosenblum
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and think about a character
who has a good motive to have done it and a bad alibi
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Mary Rosenblum
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and maybe that person is
someone the MC likes, so that MC is motivated to solve this and exhonerate
the friend/suspect.
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Mary Rosenblum
|
This is our After Hours Forum,
with me, Mary Rosenblum, your web editor and we're talking about mysteries.
I've published eight novels, more than 60 short stories, and will do my
best to answer any questions you have. If you're new here, remember that
you need to click on the 'Ask a Question' button or the 'word bubble' next
to the red question mark at the top of the screen in order to ask a
question. Your regular 'send' bar won't reach me! Or you can use /ask and
type your question into the regular send bar if that works better for you..
I do take questions out of order so be patient.
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reece
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what is the best research
material for mysteries
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Mary Rosenblum
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If you're going to do a police
procedural -- that is your MC (main character) is a cop, forensic
scientist, detective, or what have you, someone working in that profession
is gold!
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Mary Rosenblum
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But Writers Digest Books
publishes a slew of helpful research books for mystery writers.
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Mary Rosenblum
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How to Investigate a Murder.
How to Try a Murder, Forensics, and so on.
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Mary Rosenblum
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I have books on poisons,
autopsies, and the like.
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Mary Rosenblum
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I do take my police stuff to a
retired cop who is now a friend and fan and he reads those for
verisimilitude.
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chocolatediva
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Can the threat of murder make a
mystery?
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Mary Rosenblum
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It can, as long as your stakes
are high enough the keep the reader engaged. If you have a lot of suspense,
the readers are on the edges of their seats, they won't miss the blood. :-)
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xana
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Mary, I seem to recall a lot of
good 'how to write mysteries' links on the nanowrimo site under the mystery
genre thread. I don't know whether all that is still online.
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Mary Rosenblum
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I haven't checked lately, but
it's worth a look.
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labtekki
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What all do you include on the
first draft?
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Mary Rosenblum
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I write the story, and put in
any clues that occur to me at the time. On the second draft, I fine tune
things and slip in more clues if necessary.
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Mary Rosenblum
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That's where I tend to work on
my 'sleight of hand'.
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Mary Rosenblum
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You have to leave those clues
where readers will spot them, you just don't want them to realize they are
clues.
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speckledorf
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The NaNo boards are still up and
open to everyone. There isn't much traffic this time of year but the info
is still good.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Thanks speck.
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info
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Maybe a little off topic but my
problem seems to be that I know what I want to add in and where, but when I
get to that chapter, that's all I have. No idea what details or how to make
the chapter happen. Any suggestions?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Maybe a little creative
simmering time? Put the mss aside for awhile, and let your right brain
think about it. See what pops up.
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Mary Rosenblum
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I do that a lot.
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Mary Rosenblum
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It's not a horse race. It's
fine to think about things for a few days. Your subconscious does a nice
job of plot problem solving if you let it alone to work, I've found.
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chocolatediva
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Do you outline your plot?
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Mary Rosenblum
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I do, Diva.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Because I have to make sure
that specific clues and events are in place, I find that I think my storie
through a bit more than I do with my SF.
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Mary Rosenblum
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There, I know my plot arc and
my main plot points, but I tend to think more in terms of chapters when I
plot mystery...
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Mary Rosenblum
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because I'm planting clues at
regular intervals, not only to hint at the real perp, but to focus the readers'
attention on my red herrings.
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charie'
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Does each chapter have to have a
cliff-hanger?
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Mary Rosenblum
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No, that would start to feel
like a formula after about three chapters! :-)
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Mary Rosenblum
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Every chapter should have a dramatic
high point,
in any genre.
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Mary Rosenblum
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But that hardly has to be a
cliff hanger!
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chatty lady
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What do you think of
psychological thrillers?
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Mary Rosenblum
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They're fun, chatty, and often
excellent, since they require complex characters. Often, they include much
less action and violence than other sub-genres
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Mary Rosenblum
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but not always.
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labtekki
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I love cozy mysteries and would
love to write them.
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Mary Rosenblum
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It's a huge market, labtekki,
with a strong crossover to the vast romance readership.
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fiction_scribe
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if you have an idea for a series
should you write them in chronological order?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Now, but the publisher will
want to publish them in chronological order because that's how readers will
want to read them.
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Mary Rosenblum
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However, many series have an
overarching character plot as well as the stand-alone plot that drives each
book.
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Mary Rosenblum
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If you do that, it can make it
difficult to write them out of order and have that overarching plot feel
smooth and seamless.
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chocolatediva
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What are cozy mysteries?
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Mary Rosenblum
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The cozy is one of the
subgenres of mystery, diva.
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Mary Rosenblum
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The victim and perp are local,
blood and violence tends to happen off stage or be soft-pedaled.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Think Miss Marple by Agatha
Christie.
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chocolatediva
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Do you always have to have a
murder?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Not as long as the story grips
the reader.
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Mary Rosenblum
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My SF mysteries frequently
involve something that is not murder. But they are SF first and mystery
plot second.
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chatty lady
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How about blackmail or stalking
instead of murder?
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Mary Rosenblum
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That can work as long as the
risk is high. What will happen if the sleuth fails to stop the stalker or
blackmailer?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Often, mysteries with
something other than murder drive other genre plots.
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reece
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How do you make leading
characters unique not typical
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Mary Rosenblum
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Good question reece. :-) To
start with, make that character a very three dimensional and real person.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Then think about things that
make him/her interesting.
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Mary Rosenblum
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If he's a cop, maybe he loves
Wagner and has a problem with authority, drinks too much at times.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Or he's a steeplechase jockey.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Or a park ranger.
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Mary Rosenblum
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These are all main characters
from long running and popular series.
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chocolatediva
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So burglary would be better
written as a suspense novel?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Probably. Even there, the item
stolen had better be important...nuclear fuel for example.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Or a new biological warfare
culture.
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charie'
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Can the mystery be the Who
dunnit and Why? rather than Who amongst all these red herrings is the real
killer?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Yes, it's a subgenre of
mystery.
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chatty lady
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Working on one where the
'killer' is telling the story....
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Mary Rosenblum
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Like that.
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Mary Rosenblum
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It becomes a matter of
watching the thief be clever.
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Mary Rosenblum
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They're tough to do well.
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quixote
|
how about making the main
character the murderer? Don't recall having seen that...
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Mary Rosenblum
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YOu have some. They tend to
have limited appeal because it's difficult to create reader engagement, and
they're not generally series. :-)
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Mary Rosenblum
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Sometimes they have twist
endings and you don't realize that the narrator is the killer until the
end.
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fiction_scribe
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can you talk more about
"overarching character plot"
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Mary Rosenblum
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In most series, not all, but
many, the MC evolves and changes as the series progresses.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Things happen, he gets a
girlfriend or breaks up with her, she sees her roommate get shot and it
changes how she views teh world...
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Mary Rosenblum
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children and lovers and pets
come and go in their lives.
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kbr
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how about alternating points of
view--investigator
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Mary Rosenblum
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Alternating investigator and
killer?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Let's see, I think Red Dragon
does that.
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Mary Rosenblum
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That was written by the author
of Silence of the Lambs.
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Mary Rosenblum
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It's pretty dark.
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Mary Rosenblum
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You can do it. The challenge
is always, in any 'perp MC' type of book, that you are limiting your reader
engagement.
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Mary Rosenblum
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They're not going to love your
character, so you need to find a way to keep those readers involved with
the story.
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Mary Rosenblum
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If you alternate criminal with
investigator, readers are engaged by the investigator and hold their breath
as the criminal creeps closer.
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fiction_scribe
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sounds like my
"detective" - guess I have to start at the beginning and go on to
the end which might be why I'm having trouble with writing #7 of 7 first
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Mary Rosenblum
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Yes, working backward there,
could be a challenge!
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reece
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Are mysteries only marketable
for adults what about kids?
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Mary Rosenblum
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The YA (young adult)
publishers publish mysteries for kids.
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kbr
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I have the beginning of a murder
mystery but now I'm stuck
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Mary Rosenblum
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Try writing down your plot to
date and carry that paper or notebook around. Think about it. Write down
notes. Try different scenarios.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Plotting is a LOT of work.
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chatty lady
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My killer is a grief counselor
for murdered peoples family.
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Mary Rosenblum
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That could be a nice
psychological mystery. :-)
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xana
|
I started a mystery last Nov.
for nanowrimo and got totally bogged down in characters. Any suggestions on
the ideal number of suspects and maximum number of characters, in general?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Yeah, xana, too many is too
many! I know, that's vague, but I see the same problem with a lot of novice
fantasy writers.
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Mary Rosenblum
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They have a cast of thousands!
:-) Well not quite...
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Mary Rosenblum
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The problem is, if you have a
lot of characters, your readers don't spend much time with any one.
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Mary Rosenblum
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The way you make a character
matter to readers is to let readers become intimate with that character
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Mary Rosenblum
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by watching him/her onstage a
lot.
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Mary Rosenblum
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As that person reveals
himself/herself we begin to feel that this is a real person. Someone we
care about.
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Mary Rosenblum
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If you have to keep giving all
your characters stage time, we don't spend enough time with any one to
start feeling that this person is real and matters to us.
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inspire
|
what is your favorite mystery
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Mary Rosenblum
|
I just read one where the
author managed to fool me completely...and that doesn't happen very often.
Do you think I can remember his name? Nope. Darn it.
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Mary Rosenblum
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But over all, I like Tony
Hillerman's work as a whole.
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Mary Rosenblum
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I HATE most of his women
characters, but I really like what he does otherwise with his characters
and the reality of the culture they're set in.
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Mary Rosenblum
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And I forgive him his women --
he's a product of his times, I guess.
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reece
|
Does the number of characters
depend on the length?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Not really reece. Your readers
won't keep reading if they don't start caring about someone pretty quickly.
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chocolatediva
|
What is the minimum amount of
characters in a mystery?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Well, I suppose one live one
and one dead one, diva. :-) But you'd have a hard time doing a lot with
only one person walking around onstage.
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chocolatediva
|
What is the minimum number of
words for a mystery?
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Mary Rosenblum
|
Well, every publisher has
guidelines, but most novels for adults run between 70,000 words and 100,000
or more words. When you get over 125,000 the book starts getting fat and
expensive.
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ladymanor2
|
Romantic suspense is my favorite
genre to read and write
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Mary Rosenblum
|
oh, good for you, lady.
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Mary Rosenblum
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It has a nice strong following
in the romance readership.
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charie'
|
Can you give an example of
distraction or verbal sleight of hand?
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Mary Rosenblum
|
Yes. And this is the key
technique when writing mystery.
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Mary Rosenblum
|
Say you want to plant the clue
that the person who is really the killer (and you want the readers to think
he's innocent until the last second)
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Mary Rosenblum
|
has a key to the murdered
man's house.
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Mary Rosenblum
|
But your 'red herring'
character definitely has one, which is why she is the main suspect.
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Mary Rosenblum
|
So early on in the book,
before the key plays a big role, you might have the real killer, say going
on a lunch date with our sleuth.
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Mary Rosenblum
|
I forgot my umbrella he says
and hurries back to get it. And meanwhile your sleuth sees something or
does something that holds the readers' attention...
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Mary Rosenblum
|
maybe keeps a kid on a bike
from getting hit by a car.
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|
Mary Rosenblum
|
Now the killer's umbrella was
in the murdered man's building but we're so busy watching the bike story
that we don't pay attention.
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Mary Rosenblum
|
Our sleuth remembers this
later, at the denoument.
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Mary Rosenblum
|
That the killer had to have
had a key in order to get that umbrella.
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Mary Rosenblum
|
That is sleight of hand.
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builder guy
|
(off the point) I know you have
been asked these same questions for a long time and I think you are an
Awesome instructor. You have helped so many at different skill levels. My
question is, has this helped you with your writing Mary?
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Mary Rosenblum
|
I'm blushing, builder. And of
GOSH yes!
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Mary Rosenblum
|
I did a lot of the things I do
because they worked.
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Mary Rosenblum
|
I didn't necessarily
understand WHY they worked. When I started teaching other people to do the
same things...
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Mary Rosenblum
|
I had to understand WHY they
worked in order to explain them. That has made me a much stronger and more
flexible writer.
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Mary Rosenblum
|
That was an excellent and very
perceptive question, builder!
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chocolatediva
|
Is it neccesary to include a
subplot?
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|
Mary Rosenblum
|
Well, diva, nothing is
required, but it's a matter of what the story needs in order to make it
compelling and memorable to the readers.
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chocolatediva
|
Is there any way to make your
reader have sympathy for your murderer?
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|
Mary Rosenblum
|
Absolutely. Often the killer
has a reason for murder that we can understand even if we don't condone
that particular solution.
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Mary Rosenblum
|
The more complex and real your
killer is, the more powerful that story is likely to be.
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chocolatediva
|
Are all mysteries formula
writing?
|
|
Mary Rosenblum
|
Not if you want to succeed
with them, diva. It is one of the most highly competitive genres out there.
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|
kolanda
|
Okay I just checked my bookcase.
Do Sandra Brown and Catherine Coultier rank as high mystery writers? My
sister gave me some I haven't read yet
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Mary Rosenblum
|
Catherine Coultier writes
romantic suspense, kolanda, not mystery.
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Mary Rosenblum
|
I don't know Sandra Brown.
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quixote
|
could I make an appeal as a
reader: to all writers, be accurate about firearms...like them or not, they
are part of the plot
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|
Mary Rosenblum
|
Good point, quixote!
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|
Mary Rosenblum
|
You MUST get your guns right.
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|
Mary Rosenblum
|
Mystery readers are very
sophisticated!
|
|
ladymanor2
|
how nasty can the adversary be,
without the reader guessing?
|
|
Mary Rosenblum
|
You have to be quite subtle,
lady. Mystery readers are very sophisticated.
|
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reece
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How much thought should be given
to the title
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Mary Rosenblum
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A catchy title helps sell a
book. Your editor will nag you for a better one if he/she doesn't like
yours.
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xana
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What are some of the worst
mistakes novices make in writing mysteries?
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Mary Rosenblum
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Doing it superficially. Using
cardboard characters.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Well, we've run WAY over but
we had quite the full house tonight!
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kolanda
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I am new at all of this What is
"cardboard characters"
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Mary Rosenblum
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Characters who don't seem
real, kolanda.
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Mary Rosenblum
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I think it's about time for a
Forum on cardboard characters not. :-)
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Mary Rosenblum
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Well, we've run way over
tonight but we had quite the full house.
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Mary Rosenblum
|
I'll definitely come back to
this topic before too long.
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Mary Rosenblum
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Or run a 'mystery writing
Q&A' in this week's newsletter.
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Mary Rosenblum
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So be sure to check it.
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Mary Rosenblum
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I'll make myself a note!
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Mary Rosenblum
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Do join us Sunday for our
casual chat.
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Mary Rosenblum
|
Same time same place. We just
get together to hang out.
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Mary Rosenblum
|
Have a fun and safe Memorial
Day weekend!
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Mary Rosenblum
|
Be careful on the roads!
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Mary Rosenblum
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I'll post the transcripts in
the usual place: Writing Craft: Forum Transcripts
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Mary Rosenblum
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Good night all!
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